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**Hank Jarrett** · 02-26-2019, 08:47

You found a jewel, and YES it is worth a lot more than $200!!!! Especially since it also has the mount. Hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes who was about to get a "deal of the century" but these compasses are REALLY hard to find and can be rebuilt to new condition. DO NOT TRY OT REBUILD IT YOURSELF!!!!! First the marking are Radium and it is very toxic. Second, if you put the screws in the wrong order you can crack the glass VERY EASILY and that is the hardest part to find. DON'T TIGHTEN THE SCREWS!!!!!!!! I had mine rebuilt by Keystone and their work is absolutely first class. They ARE a little slow.....OK, sometimes a LOT slow, but their work is worth the wait. They do it RIGHT and know how to handle antique instruments. First class people and work.
Check with UPS or FedEx prior to shipping. The Radium can cause their radiation alarms to go off and the package can be confiscated and destroyed. CHECK FIRST and my understanding is you SHOULD NOT use USPS!
When all was said and done I ended up with almost $1,000 in my bubble face compass. And I would do it again. It is well worth it and I wouldn't sell it for twice that.

Hank

**sabre92** · 02-26-2019, 10:14

Hi Hank,

Thanks for the information. I knew the piece was somewhat hard to come by, but really sure of it's worth.

But now I'm all nervous about the Radium levels setting off the alarms! Maybe I'll have to fabricate a lead coffin to ship the thing. I'd hate to have it be confiscated and destroyed, but my sake, but more so, for the potential buyer's sake. My brother has a Geiger counter and I'm wondering if that would be able to help determine the likelihood of radiation leakage. I need to sort this out quickly as I'm going to have to ship by Friday this week. I'm guessing the local FedEx/UPS stores do not have provisions for testing packages to this level. I could be wrong. I will make a few calls. USPS is definitely out. I had my fingers on that dial, but would assume that minor handling won't cause me to grow a tail or anything!

Yes, I was very careful with the screws, knowing full well that I could crack the glass by tightening them with no cushioning, but thanks for the warning. I just spun them into place so I wouldn't lose them without contacting the housing.

That's great info about Keystone and I will pass that along to the winning bidder.

Thanks again for your excellent input, Hank.

Mark

**Hank Jarrett** · 02-26-2019, 12:35

When I shipped mine to Keystone they specified either UPS or FedEx and I took the OPEN package to them so they could see what was in it. There was a special marking they put on the package (not the "radiation" symbol, just some letters and numbers) that they said told the handlers it might set off the alarms. When the repaired compass was returned I seem to remember it had the same kind of markings, even though Keystone removed all the Radium paint for the overhaul. I had ZERO problems shipping the compass but followed Keystone's instructions to the letter. The shipping office had to look up the procedure since they had never gotten a radiation hazard package and said Keystones instructions matched exactly with their "book".
I don't think I would worry about the radiation from old Radium as much as accidentally ingesting (breathing or swallowing the dust). Radium is not only a radiation hazard, but is a poison. I would just treat it with a lot of respect. A LOT of our old instruments have Radium in them. Keystone cleaned up and refaced all of mine.

Hank

**sabre92** · 02-26-2019, 13:58

That makes me feel a lot better about the shipping situation, Hank. I will take the package up to UPS open, as you said, and bring my packaging materials with me to finish is up there.

I wonder if Keystone has a PDF document or something available that I could take with me. Do you happen to have their web site address?

Thanks again for your insight!

**Hank Jarrett** · 02-26-2019, 19:01

Keystone Instruments -- Home

http://keystoneinstruments.com/

**sabre92** · 02-26-2019, 19:20

Excellent! Thanks, Hank.

**Robert Lees** · 02-27-2019, 11:50

Mark, I think you should put a reserve on it.

Hank: How much would a fully restored and certified one be worth? $1000? I would suggest a reserve of half that.

As of just now, it is at $255. I'd be tempted to bid on it for the UK market, but I'd rather see Mark (the OP) get the proper price.

Rob

**Mark Bowden** · 02-27-2019, 15:11

Having just gone through a restoration I would share some experiences. I'm creating a doc of everything I did to post here as in a year of searching the internet and aviation museums and library's there is nothing out there info-wise.

This is just like restoring your Taylorcraft only worse, you will not likely approach anything close to recouping your restoration costs to a restored retail sale price. It is eye candy expense or something you do to get a Lindy or Grand Champion at Oshkosh.

They are not accurate and the compensator design is not good. I agree with Mr. Baker's comment if you get it within 20 deg be happy. I carry a hiking compass in the glove box but fly by GPS.

The attached pic is mine and what I have seen as a "Bubble", the one in discussion here is a later model that was used just prior to switching over the the war surplus B-16 types.

The one I found is likely a 1941 and was lucky in that it was assembled and the jewel still allowed rotation so it would qualify as a "core" vs group of parts. It sounds like from this description the jewel bearing is not good.

In tracking core prices over time count on $200-650 depending on state of condition. With NO guarantee of restoration potential.

Keystone repair is going to be $600-$1000. My repair/restoration was $650 and it worked to start with (I didn't use Keystone). Had to hand cut custom gaskets, there are two, to get it oil tight.

If the glass is bad you will have to find a glass blower to recreate it and then surface grind the two sealing faces to get them flat enough to seal.

To hang it in the aircraft window you should prepare to spend between $1200-1800 not counting time.

Mark

**sabre92** · 02-27-2019, 17:30

Too late, Rob. I can't add a reserve with active bidding. I'm going to just let the cards fall where they may. From my experience, these types of items seek their own level. Don't feel like you shouldn't bid if you want it. If you get it for a reasonable price, it's all good.

Interesting info, Mark and a beautiful restoration. In terms of the jewel bearing, are you referring to my comment about it hitting the needle? I was thinking that the needle may have gotten mishandled. But, I know nothing about the piece.

**Mark Bowden** · 02-28-2019, 07:15

Yes, the compass card/float spins on the support shaft, shaft is a "pin" and the card has the bearing, there will be some sort of cage as part of the float-bearing-shaft assembly to keep in in place during motion of aircraft, ship etc..... A "good" compass will use something like a sapphire jewel for the bearing like in watches. Or the Luber line part maybe bent, but if bent it would theoretically be in contact all the time. Cannot tell what is wrong with out detailed inspection.

If anyone is looking for a good "survival kit" compass, Suunto has a good selection. I scuba dive with the dive version and can attest to it's durability and quality (I'm not affiliated in any way).

https://www.suunto.com/en-us/Product-search/See-all-compasses/

Mark

**sabre92** · 02-28-2019, 08:45

I spoke with a rep at Keystone and he was very helpful (and friendly). The term used for shipping this type of item is Radioactive Material Excepted Package. The designation is UN2911. He also mentioned that not all of these used Radium. I would need to find a Geiger counter or similar device to be certain.

For future people visiting this thread, I'm putting a link to a FedEx form for shipping such a device:

https://www.fedex.com/content/dam/fe...klist_2018.pdf

**sabre92** · 02-28-2019, 08:57

Originally posted by Mark Bowden View Post

Yes, the compass card/float spins on the support shaft, shaft is a "pin" and the card has the bearing, there will be some sort of cage as part of the float-bearing-shaft assembly to keep in in place during motion of aircraft, ship etc..... A "good" compass will use something like a sapphire jewel for the bearing like in watches. Or the Luber line part maybe bent, but if bent it would theoretically be in contact all the time. Cannot tell what is wrong with out detailed inspection.

Thanks for that information, Mark. I feel like, if the piece was fully assembled as it should be with oil, the compass would hit the needle at all times. It only spins if I orientate the piece so that the orbit would be much lower down from the needle tip.

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