Metal glare shield?

[Steve]

My shop continues to say that the glare shield was metal riveted to the top of the instrument panel providing structural support. Mine is a very nice uphosltered piece of ...? that just sits on top of the panel. I have complete access to everything behind by simply lifting it off. I hate to give this up but they want some sort of proof that things are OK the way they are. Help???

[Robert Lees]

Structural support to what?

I believe the originals were some kind of thin fibreboard that tended to perish over the years, and was generally replaced with thin aluminium. Mine is 0.016" aluminium, there is no way that can be considered structural.. It is attached to the instrument panel and the bootcowl using screws and Tinnerman washers.

[paulnuss]

Glareshield

My '46 BC12D-1 came from the factory with an aluminum glareshield, .016" (approx) thickness, attached at the instrument panel top with some PK screws. It never was structural, nor were any others. I have seen a fiberboard glareshield, but thought maybe they were replacements.
You will notice there is no provision of any kind at the front of the glareshield to make a structural attachment.

[taylorcraft078]

Thin aluminum on my '41. Held to the dash with screws.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65

[Robert Lees]

Paul, if you definitely, positively, without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt know that your '46 came so equipped, then you must be older than you look!

Rob Tongue-in-Cheek

[paulnuss]

I really am sure!

I don't really look my age, nor do I act my age! I thank you for the compliment. However, I am just the second owner of my Taylorcraft. She and I are almost exactly the same age, within a couple weeks; she also flies like a much younger lady would. I don't, of course, remember her from brand new. But, I bought her from the original owner, from quite nearby (who bought her new in early 1947) in 1978 with 240 hours total time Airframe and Engine since new. I did the only rebuild on her ever done, over almost ten years of part-time working (1980-1990).

Having rebuilt a never-before-been-rebuilt Taylorcraft, I was able to see the way C.G. Taylor's gang did it the first time. I now have a bit over 500 hours total time on the aircraft, not nearly enough flying time yet. I do get to chuckle sometimes at the arguments about paint schemes, equipment, and details. I suppose that in the last days of a company on the rocks, it is possible that they did whatever they had to do to finish an airplane, get it out the door, and convert it to cash money (all of course within the guidelines of the FAA type certificate). That might account for some of the differences that are observed?

By the way, according to Mr. Peek's book serial numbers list, my airplane wasn't built as a Taylorcraft BC-12D1. I would guess that the factory records of the time might leave a little to be desired also, so it isn't his fault. I previously owned a different Taylorcraft BC12D-1, two serial numbers newer than this one, and also outside the serial number list.

[Joel Severinghaus]

Re: Metal glare shield?

I'm still obsessing over restoration details, and now thinking about purging all the inauthentic, albeit nice-looking, modern vinyl from my cockpit. I wrapped my metal glareshield in tan vinyl that matches the rest of the new upholstery (see photo.)

If someone can authoritatively tell me that my ship's original 1946 glareshield was black fiberboard, I'll go back to that. But if it was aluminum, did the factory always paint the glareshield the same color as the rest of the fuselage? Does anybody have a photo of an original glareshield?

[paulnuss]

Re: Metal glare shield?

I can't ask the original owner any more, he passed away 20 years ago. When I bought NC44274 s/n 10074 in 1978, she was very low time, approx. 240 hrs Total Time since New, and I bought her from the original owner. It had always been hangared on his private airstrip, and was always one of several aircraft he owned. I remember asking him what all he might have replaced, he talked only of the McDowell starter he had installed when almost new, and that was it. The thin aluminum panel installed as a glareshield and cover over the gas tank was about 95% + probably the original, but I have no proof. It was (and still is) held to the instrument panel by PK screws, and certainly was never structural, simply a cover. I have no photos of the old glareshield, nor any of a known-for-sure original glareshield. I could say with absolute certainty that there was never any sort of structural function of the glareshield. The bootcowl and this cover were fastened together by a single PK screw at front center.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Metal glare shield?

Wish I had "proof" but all I have is statements from long dead guys who worked at Taylorcraft (from many years ago). What I was told is the hat shelf and glare shield were made from an embossed black cardboard sheet that looked a little like leather (if you had never actually seen leather). It was the same stuff the hat shelf in old cars (1950s and 60s) was made from. For the younger crowd, the hat shelf is the flat shelf under the rear window that teenagers cut holes in for huge speakers. Hats didn't mute the loud music, no matter how many you piled on the speakers.
I found sheets of the material at an old car restoration upholstery shop in Kansas City. They are about 4' on a side and were pretty cheap. The problem is if you get ANY water on them they get soggy and look lousy. Lucky the material is cheap. If it gets wet you just cut a new one out and screw it down.
Forrest would probably be the best person to verify which material was used at the factory, but I would bet the aluminum ones were put in to replace wet original ones. I also would use black, not a light trim color. The light color of anything I lay on my glare shield reflects something awful in the windshield. I think that is probably the reason they texture the cardboard material, to keep reflections down in rear windows.
Hank

[Carl E. Carson]

Re: Metal glare shield?

I can't speak for the postwar models but I can for my '40 BC-65. Dad bought her in 1943 with only a few hours on it and I remember it well in the original format. The glare shield was the cardboard type mentioned in posts above. The edge at the panel went under the panel lip and was/is screwed down to the shield. Nothing structural about it. I now have aluminum and it and the panel is painted with the "crackle" finish.

[Ryan]

Re: Metal glare shield?

Our '46 BC12D has the aluminum glare shield. When i took it the plane apart it was covered in a black vinal. underneath was that blue metallic paint that was on everything else (doors, frame, insturment panel etc...). Later, we purchased some old parts from man who had taken apart a plane that had been wrecked in the 60s or thereabouts. The glare shield came in all of the parts, and it was painted with the exact same blue paint that I have been told is factory original. Don't know if this is "proof" but hope it helps.

Ryan

[Joel Severinghaus]

Re: Metal glare shield?

Thanks very much for the helpful input, guys -- don't you think part of the fun of owning an old airplane is this kind of detective work?

Judging from original paint uncovered during my restoration, I'm fairly certain my ship (s/n 8430) also left the factory in May 1946 painted overall metallic blue. But now that she's overall "Taylorcraft Ivory", should she have an ivory painted aluminum glareshield or a black hatshelf cardboard glareshield? (My wife nixed the original blue paint for the restoration, so that's out.)

I need to peer at the photos in Chet Peek's book again, but has anyone seen a 1946 photo of a light-colored plane? Light or dark glareshield?

Hank's point about a light-colored glareshield reflecting on the windshield is true -- you can see my glareshield's reflection in the photo above, so it's really not doing a good job of shielding against glare.

And while we're at it, what about that vertical rectangular piece between the front edge of the seat and the floorboards? Black hatshelf cardboard or thin plywood? Mine's plywood, and now has my ELT and fire extinguisher mounted on it, but I question whether it's original.

[Joel Severinghaus]

Re: Metal glare shield?

Wait a minute, I think I just found a photo of an original black cardboard glareshield. This is a photo I took at Oshkosh 2008 of Tyler Foster's 1946 BC12-D, s/n 8015. His cockpit looked mostly original, although his panel had no gloveboxes and his fuselage had no left cockpit door...

[mulwyk]

Re: Metal glare shield?

My glare shield is .020 aluminum painted flat black on top.

Now, I've found that same mettalic blue overspray that others have reported on various parts, but NOT on the back of the glareshield. So I'm thinking it's not original. Probably the original was cardboard.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Metal glare shield?

The cardboard one looks just like the stuff I got in Kansas City. It is really interesting that it is tucked UNDER the instrument panel in the picture. I put it on top because the pictures I had weren't clear. I like it tucked under better and may have to change that. No wonder the edge beading was so hard to get over the edge of the cardboard!
Hank