First post (kind of) and have a few questions?????

[Blind_Lemon]

I found you guys when I decided I wanted to find a Taylorcraft project. Great place for research and low and behold I found my project here also. I am the happy owner of N5202M, the project listed by RainierView .

BC12D-85 project for sale

A buddy and I made a quick turn trip to North Carolina last month to pick it up and met Brian (RainierView). Brian is an awesome guy and was a lot of help getting everything inventoried and loaded.

I met Garry Crookham and Lee Nicklas, both members here, both happen to have hangers about 4 miles from my shop. Garry has been to my shop to smoke 5202M over and made the suggestion of putting the wings and tail on and rigging the flight controls before doing any finish painting. Made since to me as the aircraft is still pink, Poly-Brush, if the fabric had to be opened to correct any control issues better now than later.

Which leads me to a couple questions I haven't been able to find using the search function.
1. Does anyone know the size of the elevator control chain and where can I get some.
The reason I ask is the closed loop elevator controls and the wing control cables are not close enough in length that they can be made equal with with each other with the turnbuckles. I am thinking that other than making new cables adding a link or two to each chain would be easier. I made an offset link for at the turnbuckles, but Garry and I think that adding to the chain would be cleaner.

2. I need one door handle, I have 3 but Brian hasn't been able to come up with the 4 one. Any help on where I might be able to pick one up would be much appreciated. Pics posted.

That's all I have for now

I'm sure I'll have more questions and I'll post some more pics as I move along.

Bob Peck
Tulsa





New home for now.

[Dick Smith]

Bob, if you can't find a door handle close by, let me know as I have one here in Alaska. Dick Smith N5207M

[3Dreaming]

1. Does anyone know the size of the elevator control chain and where can I get some.
The reason I ask is the closed loop elevator controls and the wing control cables are not close enough in length that they can be made equal with with each other with the turnbuckles. I am thinking that other than making new cables adding a link or two to each chain would be easier. I made an offset link for at the turnbuckles, but Garry and I think that adding to the chain would be cleaner.

There is chain for the ailerons, but none for the elevator. Lay out what you have and take some pictures, then maybe someone can tell you what is missing. For example, there are links that attach the elevator cables to the elevator at the rear end. There is one or two short cables that attach the chains for the ailerons behind the "H" column.

[Hank Jarrett]

Bob, I have been making door handles but never had one of the post war ones like in your photo to use as a master. If I can borrow one I can make a mold and cast you one. It does NOT have to be nice and pretty. I can clean up the first casting for a second mold. These are the inside and outside ones I made for the 41. One is an original and one is my copy. I can't tell which is which any more from a photo.

I also have some chain but that is NOT a good way to fix the problem! You will end up with the end of the chain hitting the pulley. We need to talk and see if the spacer link wouldn't fix the problem much easier.

Hank

[Blind_Lemon]

Dick: Thx for the offer on the door handle, I'll put that in my back pocket for now.

3D: You are correct, I misspoke, aileron chain is what I meant. That's what I get for not rereading my post before hitting the go button.

HJ: What an offer!!! I would kind of like to have an original if one shows up, but if you are just wanting to get you hands on one to make up a mold I have no issues with sending you one of mine. With over 6K post I know where to find you.

As far as the cabling issue, the engine and boot cowling are off so I have full access to the under dash controls. (sure made installing the rudder peddle pivot brass shims a breeze).
Went out this morning to double check for clearance and on the outside small pulley there is enough, what I failed to check was the inside larger pulley for clearance. NOT so much.

Plan B. I made up an off set turnbuckle link that connects the closed loop control cable and aileron wing cabling and it works.

Pic of the link I made up, works fine. Please excuse the hardware, I'm waiting on a delivery and I wanted to get this mocked up. Suggestions welcome, but I REALLY don't want to make up new cables.



My turnbuckles don't have enough adjustment for this.



Bob Peck
Tulsa

[Hank Jarrett]

Enjoy the centering and adjustment of the aileron cable loop in the cockpit. ;-) It gets a LOT easier the second time. I made up a set of metal links of different hole spreads so I could move the hookup back and forth to get it matched with the aileron cables in the wings. You need to get the loop in the fuselage to work smoothly BEFORE you try to hook up to the wing cables. I got the chains centered with the wheels then tied the wheels together to hold them in neutral while adjusting everything else. A lot of guys have put a small link or turnbuckle in the cable between the wheels to get both wheels at the same angle but make sure the turnbuckle doesn't hit the pulley in hard over wheel movements. Moving the chains one tooth at a time then checking for clearances is almost a sport.

I have given away most of my sheet metal doors, a few of which had door handles but haven't ever had one I could get the handle off of. Neither of my planes have that handle but I got a number of calls from people looking for that style so I wanted to make some. I cast them from a hard resin and cast a steel wire in the handle to strengthen it. Not original but sure better than some hardware store handle. My 41 had a garage door "T" handle when I bought her. Took a long time to find an original to cast copies from..Within a month of making one you couldn't tell from original (except by weight) I got a second original! Oh well, at least we have replacement handles now. ;-)

On cable and engine control runs trying to get things run with the boot cowl on is a royal pain. I traced the firewall off on a piece of cardboard and hung it on the engine mount bolts. All the holes are in the cardboard and it is a SNAP to run everything through the cardboard. MUCH easier on the back!! I will use some string to tie he cables, hoses and wires in approximate position with the cardboard and then everything is close for the boot cowl and firewall. I just finished making brass bushings for the 45 rudder pedal shafts and I can't see how you could do it with the boot on! Sure glad they weren't missing on the 41! Engine isn't even ready for the 45 yet.

Hank

[Blind_Lemon]

So I've been busy on 5202M. Got all the cabling checked out and tested the the flight surfaces for throw and they all meet factory specs. Pulled the wings back off on Thanksgiving since I had lots of help at the house. Of coarse we did it before dinner so we wouldn't be cutting into any ones nap time after.

Next on my "to do list" was to hang the cowling. The cowling that came with the AC is all "new" except for the nose bowl, boot cowl fits great, hung the engine cowling and it didn't look great, needed trimming. I got to thinking that it didn't matter what it looks like with the engine removed. So I went looking for trouble and I found it. I pulled all the cowling off the AC and hung the engine and the cowling wouldn't fit except without a LOT of fiddling and twisting. Nose bowl rubs big time on one side. On either side of the top of bottom cowl, the distance from the firewall and nose bowl are not the same. Dzus fasteners were already installed so, I believe, even if the one side wasn't too short I'd still have to make new engine cowling.

So I guess I'm going to make new engine cowling. The upper may be ok, (yea right) but won't know until after the bottom is built and installed.

I have done some research and Scott's blog of his build has lots of good information. (Thank you Scott) Any other recommendations?

Since I don't have the original tin, I have an ask of you guys:

What is the measurement of the center of the upper nose bowl Dzus fastener to center of the upper Dzus fastener at the fire wall, measured along the top edge of the bottom cowl? That was kind of wordy, hope it made since. Come to think about it, it might be good to have the top three measurements on each side, if you wouldn't mind. Would be interested to find out if yours are the same measurement on each side.

And while I'm at it I'd like to give a shout out and a big Thx to Garry Crookham. He's local here to me and has been over and had a lot of good advice.


BL

[Scott]

Measurements from other aircraft may be of limited value. For example mine was different between the right side and the left, even.

The best option is to hang the engine with the front baffles installed, and center the nose bowl relative to the crank flange, and square with the firewall. Leave enough room for the front baffle seals, about .250", and take your measurements.

You can fabricate the left and right doublers first, these plus the top cowling center hinge channel will hold the nose bowl in position as you fit the cowlings.

Remember, the cylinders are staggered left and right ie the left cylinders are further forward than the right, and clearance to the top spark plugs needs to be maintained.

There's a lot of trial and error and as far as I know, no shortcuts! And of course the more time you invest, the bigger the consequences of a mistake. Have fun, take your time.

S

[Blind_Lemon]

Thanks for taking the time to respond Scott. As I said above your Blog is a wealth of information.

I was hoping to get a rough average of that distance between the two upper Dzus fasteners, firewall to nose bowl, on a few aircraft. But not a lot of luck with that request. The cowling that came with my aircraft just don’t fit. The left side is just short.

Engine is on, but no baffling. Guess I’ll work on that.

BL

[3Dreaming]

My turnbuckles don't have enough adjustment for this.



Bob Peck
Tulsa

Your other post brought me back here. There are two or three other turnbuckles in that circuit of cables that might be able to be tightened to allow loosening of those pictured in that connection.

As for the baffle, I can't offer much help. The 85 HP airplanes seem to be a little tighter than the 65 HP airplanes.

[Hank Jarrett]

Tom (or Bob, not sure who has the problem), when I rigged my ailerons I had the same problem with turnbuckles not having enough adjustment. Just make some replacement steel straps (the ones between the turnbuckles) with the holes spaced closer and wider in steps of about 3/4 of the adjustment available. I made a whole pile of them with different spacing and when the cables weren't swaged exactly right you just change out the steel strips to adjust.

Hank