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Engine Mount Bolt Torque?

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  • Engine Mount Bolt Torque?

    The aircraft in question below is a 1940 BC-65 with an A-65.

    Question: What is the correct type and size for the engine mount to firewall attachment bolts, and what is the proper torque range for fastening with a castellated nut? For the purpose of looking up a torque spec, are these bolts considered loaded in tension or shear (I assume tension since that is the loading in flight, but sitting there on the ground, seems more like shear)?

    Rambling Backstory: I had my A&P replace the worn out exhaust system two years ago, which as we all regret requires unbolting the engine mount from the firewall. I've been flying it since then until recently when that mild steel exhaust developed a crack, and I decided to replace it with stainless steel this time, as many have done. (I hired Custom Aircraft Parts in El Cajon, CA to fabricate a new stainless system from the old mild steel with excellent service and results. They were recommended by Dawley, who no longer performs the service.) Upon installation of the new exhaust, my mechanic discovered significant deterioration of the threads and scoring on the shank of the upper left engine mount to firewall bolt. The scoring appears as if the bolt had been rotating in position from vibration. I have no idea if this happened in the two year interval between exhaust replacements, or if it was present prior and went unnoticed at the last exhaust swap. Hard to believe it happened in the interim since I usually give the engine mount a good tug on preflight, and I never noticed any play or unusual vibration in the air that would indicate the bolt was loose. But equally hard to believe the mechanic did not notice it when it was apart last time. The A&P replaced the damaged bolt with a new one this time. I am asking about the torque spec thinking maybe it was not torqued correctly last time, and planning to double-check it this time. Other than incorrect torque on the bolt, can anyone think of an explanation for the damage described?

    Thanks,

    Lance
    Orlando, FL

  • #2
    My guess is that it wasn't tightened properly. He probably thought that since it had a castle nut it didn't need to be tight like many other applications where castle nuts are used. I would tighten it as in tension.

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    • #3
      If the scoring was at the engine mount to fuselage attach location, countersink the edges slightly. We had an F-19 that was breaking bolts and generated the AD because of this. Put new hardware in on installation.

      EO

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      • #4
        The engine mount to firewall bolts are ABSOLUTELY NOT shear bolts!!! They see shear when the plane is sitting on the ground but that is NOT the primary load. They are TENSION bolts and should be tightened to spec. Not going to give a torque here because I don't have it with me, but one of the A&P/IAs will probably know it off the top of their heads. I always have to look those numbers up. I don't trust memory for critical bolt torques.

        Hank

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        • #5
          If there is no torque specified from the manufacturer, the Standard Torque Chart should be used. It can be found in A.C. 43.13-1B, Chapter 7, Section 3, Table 7-1 on page 7-9.

          EO

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          • #6
            Anyone ever seen a torque spec from Taylorcraft?

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            • #7
              The engine mount bolts through the firewall are steel-steel (with the stainless firewall in between) so in the absence of any approved data, AC43.13-1b should be used as a guide, as suggested above (i.e. normal tension torque values for that size of AN bolt).

              Because the Taylorcraft data I have does not specify, I use metal AN363 (MS21045) stop nuts; so no need for cotter pins; these are not rotating parts. Allows for a more accurate torque setting, and on the subject, always use a torque wrench calibrated to ICAO standards; it's not expensive to get them checked)

              It would be different in a wooden or composite structures (like a DR Robin, or Rutan type, for example) where excess torque might crush wood or composite)

              Rob

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              • #8
                Is the UK good with use of elastic stop nuts in the engine compartment? I thought we were not allowed to in the US. On the Navy planes we were NEVER allowed to use elastic stop nuts in the engine compartment, but that was MILITARY planes. Anyone know what the FAA says (quote from an official document, I DO NOT know on this one and my opinion is worth what I was paid for it.)

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                • #9
                  To be fair, Hank, elastic stop nuts are not approved firewall forward over here in the UK. I believe the principle behind this is because heat could cause these nuts to lose their "stopping" ability.

                  In reality: if the heat gets that hot; losing security of stop nuts is the least of the worries!

                  Having said that, the very miniscule small additional cost of mechanical stop nuts (like AN 363) is a tiny cost to pay for peace of mind, and as such I insist upon no nylock nuts firewall forward. The cost difference is minute.

                  Where there is no relative rotation (like on Taylorcraft

                  (I only sign off LAA aircraft (the equivalent of "Experimental" in the US); I am not a UK; EASA; FAA or other person approved to sign certified aircraft.)

                  Rob

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                  • #10
                    Sorry, I missed it that you weren't using elastic stop nuts. I think we called the ones you used "JAP Nuts" (I have no idea where the name came from but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the Japanese, I always assumed it was the initials of the company that made them). I don't remember seeing JAP nuts that big when I was at the NADEP working on Navy planes. When we got them they were really small and tended to snap off bolts. Always disliked them because of that. How did you apply a torque to them accurately?

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                    • #11
                      I know what you mean by JAP nuts, Hank, I think.

                      I believe I have some in my stock. I know nothing regarding the source of the name (JAP engine perhaps?) These self-clinching nuts are more conical where the crimping is. And I think they're plated with a different material; possibly gold-coloured zinc?

                      I'm away for a few days on personal matters; remind me next week on to take some photos.

                      Rob

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