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mdevouge@shaw.ca

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  • mdevouge@shaw.ca

    Hello every one,

    I am new to the group and in the process of re building a taylorcraft here in Canada in our experimental category. I need to replace the spars and was thinking of using Duglas fur. I will be doing the mods to increase the gross weight to 1500 lbs. I thought that the dug fur will be stronger. I know I will pay a weight penalty of around 12 Lbs but I thought it might be worth it? I have read some ware in the past that some Taylorcraft came out of the factory with fur. Is that the case?

    Well rebuilding I plan on installing float fittings, changing out the A65 to a C85 with 0200 Crank, c90 Cam for more horse power, light weight starter and altenanter. Following the model 19 procedures mostly with increase baggage area, plexy skylite, full plexy doors that swing up to the wing and are easley removeable? four point seat belts, Grove disk brakes and wheels, passenger brakes and some other things I probably haven't thought of yet??

    Another few questions I have is witch large tire works the best for bush and out back flying? and with the capability of more gross weight what other floats work good on a Taylorcraft? I think the 1320 Edos would be a little light?

    Thanks


    Mike

  • #2
    Hi Mike and welcome to the Forum. Your project sounds exciting and just today we're discussing optional engines and props for performance. Have a read as that evolves as there's options and opinions to consider.

    Spars: I know nothing
    G/W: 1500# is good but empty weight when done will make or break the plane's useful load and performance.
    Float fittings: Weld on if possible but bolt on are also good. Eddie Peck in CA or Atlee Dodge Alaska sell parts.
    Baggage: Big is good for light stuff but provide a means via anchors and markings to maintain CG and keep things from moving. Half the large F-19 baggage is really plenty for most.
    Plexi skylight: I have Clayton's STC and the headroom and vis is worth the mod.
    Plexi doors: I have them and would not fly without due to visibility and ease of entry/exit. Be sure to lock them in at three points - two side and one bottom opposite the upper hinge. I have pressure cylinders used to hold up car hoods and tailgates to keep them open, but a catch on the wing bottom also works - had that before.
    Belts: Good idea for 4-point to keep from flying through that skylight in turbulence.
    Grove brakes: I have them and they work but only on pilot side. Easy to add another set if desired.
    Tires: I have 26" Airstreaks but for me I'd go no larger if seeing the runway three point is of interest. Some like 29".
    Tailwheel: Scott 3200 are durable.
    Floats: Talk to Eddie Peck. I'd consider EDO 1400's with his mods. PK 1800's are good and approved on the F-19's. Baumann floats are excellent. I have EDO 1320's but yes they are a 1450# float on a calm day with reasonable side winds.
    Vortex generators: They make the plane safer and the stall more controllable.
    Fuel: There is approval for a second set of 6 gallon wing tanks. Tim ASTJP2 has the details or here under 337's: https://www.taylorcraft.org/resources.html

    Enough for now,

    Gary
    N36007 1941 BF12-65 STC'd as BC12D-4-85

    Comment


    • #3
      MIke, welcome to the forum, this project sounds fun. Maybe you could start a blog in the blog section and keep everyone advised of your progress.

      On your spars it would be good to seek out assistance here with someone experienced in making them if you don't have any.

      Consult FAA's AC 43.13-1B for wood substitution. Table 1-1. Transport Canada may have it's own reference doc. on this topic.
      https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861

      You must carefully source the wood from the specific location it was grown in to ensure the structural strength properties are met and the grain standards are met.

      Douglas-Fir is and can be "stronger" but it is more inconsistent and somewhat harder to shape and machine. You will have to look through more piles of boards to find good stuff.

      Spruce is prized for its consistency over others and that is one of the reasons it is the "gold standard".

      Wood structural properties come from here:
      https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/f...fpl_gtr190.pdf

      Hope this helps, Mark


      Mark
      1945 BC12-D
      N39911, #6564

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the help and encouragement,


        I forgot to list the extra tanks in the last post. I have downloaded all the how tos from the foundation web site. I have a wood supply company local that has Grade A Duglas fur 2by 8" that is some of the nices close grain wood I have ever seen. $8.00 Lin Ft. Weight is my problem, I would like to keep the plane as light as posable. Now frills with a nice cover job and good seats, but sparse. I think if I am carful I could be under the model 19 with light weight starter, Altenator, and oddesy battery? Well see?



        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a Skytec C12ST2S starter with a +4" engine mount, but a B&C is better on the standard mount for a fit to the firewall. For alternator I have B&C 200G 12A. Right behind the seat is an Hawker Odyssey SBS J16 in an Atlee Dodge tray that includes the master and starter relay. All approved installations. If you need info let me know. Plane weighs 834 on 26" tires and could be lighter but the large baggage and other mods and radio gear add up.

          Gary
          N36007 1941 BF12-65 STC'd as BC12D-4-85

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't try and shave weight in spar selection. If you have the luxury of multiple sticks to choose from that meet spec, great, pick the lightest.

            But pick based on grain quality and lack of defects as your first criteria. Especially if you are upping the gross weight.

            Douglas-fir and Spruce are of quite close densities. Wood is variable, one could weigh more than the other, depends on the pick of the lot.

            Weight problems come from how much gloss paint you put on it and the gadgets you install.

            Mark
            Mark
            1945 BC12-D
            N39911, #6564

            Comment


            • #7
              Also, if you have a choice put the heavy end of the blank towards the fuselage and the light end at the tip. This reduces the rolling inertia and will give you crisper roll control. Not a lot, but worth it if you have a choice. It also puts the strongest wood at the root where the loads are highest.

              Hank

              Comment


              • #8
                After I damaged my plane skidding on ice and hitting my right wing on a fence post ,4 years ago, I decided to use Douglas Fur as a replacement for the front spar. Spruce was at that time not available in those lengths either from Spruce or Wicks so I found a source not 50 miles from me for Douglas Fur, a big ware house with all kinds of special lumber and it was not that expensive maybe 5 or 6 bucks a foot then. I bought 4 20ft pieces then and still have 3 in my barn, Douglas Fur worked great not that much heavier and was no problem with my friend an A&P IA. I will say Spruce though is really nice to work with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Due to the shape of the 90 torque and power curves, I would suggest that you consider retaining the 85 cam.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This shop recommended the C-90 cam: http://www.customaircraftak.com/home.html They build for competition as well. Maybe contact them and see what their current suggestions are for a C-85 upgrade.

                    Gary

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                    N36007 1941 BF12-65 STC'd as BC12D-4-85

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                    • #11
                      Hi All does anyone know where I can get Spruce or Doug Fur, cut to size wood spar material??
                      Steve

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                      • #12
                        I would recommend finding a good cabinet shop in your area that does specialty work. They can cut spars for you to the exact dimensions, you will need to have the dimensions which you will have to measure from your old spars, There is a wing print around with some dimensions but not the actual spar dimensions neither front or rear if you do a forum search on this site you may come up with the owner of the print who will sell you one I think he is from Ill. I was able to get good dimensions from the old spars . The cabinet shop should be able to get you in touch with some place where you can get Douglas Fur , or even Spruce. Or you could just buy them from Wag Aero for hundreds of dollars more.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another REALLY good place to look is boat builder supplies. Spar and mast materials have the same kind of grain, moisture and strength requirements as we do. There is a place called Yukon Lumber in Norfolk VA that sells a lot of specialty wood for sail boat builders as well as furniture. Lots of very knowledgeable people there if you are close to here.

                          Find some wood boat builders. They will know of good sources. Especially the racers.

                          Hank

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                          • #14
                            I just got done planing the spars for Peter's airplane, we found 2 pieces of Douglas fir that were excellent and I had them cut me 9' sections out of the 14' lengths, they came out beautiful. I still have to trim the ends and cut the bevels. Then it is glue time for the doubler. I have not decided on how to cut the taper on the doubler yet, I may use the table saw and a wedge assembly. Then once we get the ribs cleaned up, some replacement parts and new trailing edges, I can show peter how to assemble. I think we are going to acid etch the ribs to check for excessive corrosion, then alodine. Once we get a good pile of parts, start assembling then drive 415 miles, double check the fit, drive back the 415 miles and cover...with Stits. Tim
                            N29787
                            '41 BC12-65

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