speaking of John Glen

[jim cooper]

In the 80's I remember reading an article about John Glenn and his Corsair flying in Korea. The article explained that Ted Williams, ( recalled for duty) was tooling along in his Corsair, returning to base, when suddenly, from below, another Corsair appears on his right wing, puts its left wing under his and tips him up to 90 degrees. Williams recovers, looks over and the pilot waves at him, grinning. They land and Glenn walks over and shakes hands. They became fast friends. Anyone have more on this? JC

[vetdrem]

Re: speaking of John Glen

I don't think that your story is true, but it sure sounds neat.

Here is an interview with Ted Williams where he talks about knowing Glenn, but he doesn't say anything about getting nudged by him.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1998253/The-Splendid-Splinter-Interview-with.html

Louie

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: speaking of John Glen

It is a great story but having actually SEEN the wing tip on an F-4U there is NO WAY you could push another planes wing up with it. Both would have landed with damaged wing tips and been grounded pending Glenn losing his wings for a bone head stunt and Williams getting a ROYAL chewing out for ever letting another plane get that close and not seeing it.
A Corsair tip would be damaged by doing that to a Taylorcraft. Of course the Taylorcraft would be destroyed. I have stood behind an IDLING Corsair and I can guarantee you would NEVER want to be behind one in a "T"!
Hank

It WAS a heck of a lot of fun! My wife's favorite plane.

By the way, Glenn really is a "Boy Scout" (in the best possible way). I can't imagine him EVER putting another pilot in danger like that for a joke. He is a consummate professional, even by astronaut standards.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: speaking of John Glen

However that tipping force is produced with out actual physical contact. There are recorded instances of one pilot bring home another pilot that was incapacitated by leveling the wings and making gradual turns for the stricken pilot/plane. Larry

PS: I do agree that Glenn is the consummate boy Scout.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Not only heard of steering a plane by bumping, seen the results. You DO get damage, but in those cases it is worth it (to get a plane close enough to the carrier to let a BN punch his pilot and himself out close to rescue).
You can also use the wing tip vortex to tip another plane without even touching but it involves getting REALLY close and doing a fast roll of your tip past the other one. Your vortex pushes the other tip, BUT there is a VERY real danger of hitting tips. The Brits did it to "Tip" Buzz Bombs before they got to their targets. They lost a few planes doing it too. Still safer than firing at close range at 1,870 lbs. of Amatol! A few planes were blown up when the warhead exploded. No choice over populated areas, but over farmland much safer to tip it into a spin and make a hole in a field.
Hank

[M Towsley]

Re: speaking of John Glen

My buddy's F4U-5N, Korean War era, at our local airport. He owns a Mustang and about 12 other airplanes. I only wish this one was a two-place....

[Bird]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Now I may be speaking out of the wrong orfice here but I seem to remember a story of a early jet pushing, yes pushing 1 far enough south so that the pilot could eject over friendly territory. Can't remember where I read it or how far fetched it is but I have also heard of a tanker dragging a shot up fighter from N Vietnam, keeping him fueled up long enough to recover the plane.
My best memories from the Mercury program were when I was sitting in my toy rocking chair stuck in front of the black and white 13" TV and watching the whole thing, what disappointed me was after liftoff I would run outside and could never see anything. I sure wish those commenter's should have explained why I couldn't see anything from Boston.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Hard as it is to believe but the Phantom Push DID happen. It was in 1967 over Vietnam. I think it was called Pardos' push and the pilots of both F-4 Phantoms got the Silver Star for it. The front Phantom had severe fuel loss from AAA damage and he dropped his tailhook for the other F-4 to push him. The rear pilot formed up on the front and placed the hook against the top of his windscreen (the windscreen and frame of an F-4 is INCREDIBLY strong). The push didn't do more than stretch the glide long enough for both planes crews to eject over friendly territory. The windscreen was severely shattered by the time they separated.
I only know about this because a TV show used the story and I was laughing about it. An F-4 pilot confirmed the story and I checked it out. ALL TRUE!

The A-6 had several times when it transferred fuel to a shot up plane over extended times to keep it airborne with massive fuel loss. We got one Intruder back with a hole in the wing big enough I could stand with my head and shoulder through it. He came back on fuselage tanks, but I have no idea what kept the wing on!

Hank

Only a silver star!!!!

[jim cooper]

Re: speaking of John Glen

RE: "John Glenn-Boy Scout" He was anything BUT!" Bit of a hell raiser and left college after two years, or less, as I recall. (from small town in Ohio) History is often revised however. 2 years gave him enough to get into Navy Cadet program as that was the requirement at the time. I don't think (if it did indeed happen) that Glenn's wing ever touched the other. It would have happened by air pressure if it happened at all. I have also stood behind a Corsair and with a 16 foot prop, it DOES make alot of wind but this would have nothing to do with the reported event. If Glenn had not been stuffed into the capsule and gone for his famous ride, he would have been, in all probability just another Navy pilot, who did his duty and was eventually discharged. Not being an academy grad, and not having a degree, he would have been passed over for promotion and discharged. At the time he was selected for the capsule, the whole concept was in its infancy. Had he come later,he would never have made the cut. (His ride also made him a Senator.) I remember standing beside the capsule at the Smithsonian (the size of a Volkswagen!) He had alot of guts! JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: speaking of John Glenn

Glenn left college after two years because of WW-II. He was a kid at the time and enlisted in the Air Corps. They didn't call him up immediately so he went to the Marines. He served in WW-II and Korea where I think he flew Panthers and was nicknamed "Flak Magnet" or "Magnet Ass" or something similar which I don't think he cared for. You don't get to pick your nickname in the Navy or Marines, your squadron does it for you. Do you think I would have PICKED "Gonzo"?
In Korea he flew a second tour on exchange with the Air Force and they called him "Mig Mad Marine". After the war he broke a whole series of worlds records in an RF-8 and was the first to fly across the US at an average super sonic speed.
I know he graduated from a Marine PG program and NTPS at Pax River as well as having a PhD. but I think that was honorary. He never made any noise about his accomplishments. He really IS a modest man.
I didn't know him when he was young, but as a Senator he was always an absolute straight shooter. I didn't agree with all of his votes, but his opinions were always well thought out and he is a first class human being. He LIVED in Ohio with Anna while he was a Senator and flew himself back and forth to D.C. for his Senate duties. I really don't think he found religion in the Mercury capsule, he had it long before that.
History may get revised for the sake of a lot of American hero's, but I think Glenn is the real thing. His shuttle flight gave us tremendous amounts of data on how the body ages since we had SO MUCH data on his physiology from the military and Mercury to compare with. It was unfair the way the press beat up his flight as a joy ride for an aging Senator. The poor guy looked like a pin cushion before and after! We probably know more about John Glenn's' body and how it aged than anyone on earth!
Like I said, I didn't know him when he was a young kid dropping out of college and going off to WW-II. What person his age in those circumstances wouldn't be a bit of a "Hell Raiser", but the only Hell he raised I ever heard about was with the Japanese in the Marshall Islands and three unfortunate MiG pilots over Yalu river. No, he probably wouldn't get picked for the Astronaut Corps today. Now they want education over pilot skill, but in Mercury they had different criterion. John Glenn was the right man at the time and drew the most hazardous mission in Mercury (OK, Ham got the MOST hazardous one! That is a whole different story.)
If ANYONE deserves the title hero, it is John Glenn.
Hank

[Marv]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Well said Hank. Marv

[Larry Lyons]

Re: speaking of John Glen

The push home was 2 F-86's I believe. The pusher lodged his pointy part on top of his intake in to the tail cone of the pushee him home. I will have to do a bit of looking to find that story. Larry

[jim cooper]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Hank misses the whole point of my bringing up John Glenn. (Right over his head!) John Glenn WAS a hero. So was Chuck Yeager and so was Bob Hoover,Ted Williams,Douglas Bader, etc.etc. These were pilots from a different age. Their education was limited but they were well coordinated and in good shape,except for Bader(And most certainly raised hell.) The aircraft they flew were very basic compared to later models (ie: the Tomcat, F-15,18, etc.) The education qualifications HAD to rise as the aircraft became MUCH more sophisticated and MUCH faster so things happened alot quicker. To say that modern or more recent pilots or astronaut / pilots "Are not as good pilots" is really foolish! You mean someone like Dale Snodgrass is, or was not as good a pilot as Glenn?! Or MANY,MANY others? A Tomcat is like a speeding bullet compared to a Korean war straight wing,slow ponderous jet or a Corsair. The F 86 was better but still evolving. John Glenn did a superb job for his country both as a pilot and a human being. He was at the right place at the right time, which is how things sometimes work out.JC

[Bird]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Larry, Thats the story that I heard about.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: speaking of John Glen

Since my plane is down right now, ALL of you are over my head!
I agree completely. If it sounded like I was saying anything different than you, I didn't say it right.
Hank