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  • Angle of Attack

    I have been wondering about the design angle of attack of the Taylorcraft's wing. We all know about the procedure of using a level across the spar bottoms out at the last full rib on the wing in order to adjust the wash-out and rig the wings. That is a nice pragmatic procedure for rigging, but really doesn't tell us much about the actual angle of attack designed into the airplane. The Type Certificate doesn't go to this level of engineering detail, and none of the drawings that I have run across have the information. So I got curious.

    My fuselage is sitting in the hanger without wings waiting for its wings to go back together, so I took a rib, ran a line of tape from nose to trailing edge to mark the chord-line, and taped it in place against the attach fittings and along the fuselage top in (what I hope) is good alignment. The fuselage is levelled with a level on the horizontal stab. Now it is fairly simple to measure the angle of the chord-line. It seems easiest to measure from spar to spar and I find that the level-line from the rear spar to the front spar drops 2.5 inches in the 31 inches from spar-center to spar-center. If I remember my high-school trig... lets see 2.5/31 should be the sin of alpha... I get an angle of attack relative to the level on the stabilizer of 4.625 degrees.

    Now one big surprise is that I notice that the placement of the spars in the ribs is such that the bottom of the front and rear spars are level with the chord line!!! On most wings, laying a level on the top or bottom of the spars tells one little or nothing about the actual chord line. I have seen a number of home-builts mis-built due to this mistake. But on our beloved Tcrafts, the bottom of the spars gives us a very convenient place to measure the actual chord. Now the book procedure for rigging the wash-out when installing the wings makes a lot more sense. The book uses a 30 inch level rather than the 31-inches centre to centre of the spars, but using 1 5/16 inches over 30 inches and take the inverse sin... gives exactly 2.5 degrees angle of attack at the tip. So there seems to be 2.1 degrees of washout in the wing.

    With that bit of analysis, a number of questions come to mind.
    1. Did I do it right?
      I am not an aeronautical engineer, and I usually screw this sort of thing up mightily when I try to expose my level of ignorance on the net. So my first question is "Did I get the basics right here?" Please be gentle when you point out the mistakes.
    2. How typical?
      How typical is 4.6 degrees AoA with 2 degrees washout? Does anyone know the numbers for Champs, Cubs, Monocoupes...
    3. Spar-bottom alignment
      I wonder if CG Taylor designed the spar placement in the ribs so that the spar bottoms were parallel to the chord. Or was it just a happy coincidence. Everything that I read about CG's skills lead me to believe that he probably did it on purpose.
    4. How much does it matter?
      I don't have sufficient aeronautical engineering background to find the formulas, but my intuition tells me that there are a few knots rattling around here somewhere. How much difference would a degree of AoA make in the performance of our planes?
    5. Different models
      The fuselage wing fittings are non-adjustable. Did CG Taylor re-calculate the angle of attack from the 50 HP to the A65 of the BC12? As the power and weight go up, the angle of attack should decrease in order to keep the fuselage and tail drag at optimum values. Did the newer Tcrafts, F19 and F22, have a different wing attach geometry than the earlier? It seems that CG did the design properly as our planes seem to be well optimized, but how much did they change over time as power and speed increased?
    6. STC SA1-210
      When we upgrade an A65 BC12D to a C-85, power goes up about a third. should a properly optimized airframe have a slightly lower angle of attack to keep the fuselage and tail at optimum lowest drag for the higher power?

    That's probably enough to get started. There is little we can do to the the existing airframes, but if we want to daydream about replacements, this is (possibly) an interesting question.

    Skip Egdorf
    TF #895
    BC12-D-4-85 by way of STC-SA1-210
    N34237 SN 7700
    Attached Files
    Skip Egdorf
    TF #895
    BC12D N34237 sn7700

  • #2
    Re: Angle of Attack

    Good thread ...

    How hard was the wind blowing while you were determining angle of attack?

    Just messing with you ...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Angle of Attack

      You are doing just what I was doing on my plane when I did the wash on my wings. Just one minor mistake. The angle of attack (α or "Alpha") is a measure of the angle between the wing and the flow of air, the angle of the wing to the datum line is the incidence angle, which is the aircraft horizontal datum and an imaginary line from the center of the theoretical leading edge included circle and the center of the wing trailing edge.
      You got the datum line for the aircraft right (the horizontal stab is supposed to be parallel to the datum) but it is not as easy to get the right line through the airfoil, especially with a rib with no leading edge sheeting. That line has nothing to do with the spar positions. You may or may not have gotten that line right. I wish I could find the papers from when I did it on mine but I didn't think anyone would be that interested at the time. You got most of your process spot on! Congratulations, it is NOT that easy.
      As for if the numbers are "typical", I really haven't checked yet. The angle of the wing is usually designed so that the wing is at an angle for the wing to produce lift equal to the design cruise weigh at the design cruise speed with the fuselage at the best L/D for the airplane. That is a lot of variables. That lift is dependent on the wing area which is set by the design landing speed and the Cl chosen for the airfoil used (close to the stall Cl). Those angles design the landing gear configuration so that the main wheels just touch down as the tail wheel is close to the ground (tail wheel first landing are hard on the plane).
      There are another pile of trades that enter into the design process that set where the tires contact the ground compared to the CG and a book full of others. "Typical" is a hard thing to tie down.
      The effect of a degree or two difference would be heavily dependent on that max L/D angle of the whole plane. For that you need a wind tunnel, Computational Fluid Dynamics or what Taylor had, a REALLY good eye. When I get my plane set up with an instrumentation suite I hope to measure a lot of those things with the "real world wind tunnel" and do some flight testing. I am really interested in seeing if there are some minor alignment "tweaks" that will improve the efficiency of the design, but honestly I don't expect to see all that much improvement. Maybe 5 to 10 mph for a "stock" plane. I "suspect" that raising the trailing edge of the wing on a lot of planes would increase cruise speed a little since I see a lot of variation from one plane to another. As the power goes up the design cruise speed changes and that will change the angle the wing should be on the plane. I don't think Taylor ever changed that.
      Now if your interests are in better take off and landing performance there are some real improvements to be made because Taylor was going for best cruise speed and you can trade some of the top speed for better ROC.
      From what you did and the questions you asked, you are closer to being an Aero Engineer than you think.
      Hank

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Angle of Attack

        Wow Just what we need to start the build of a supper T
        1940 BLT/BC65 N26658 SER#2000

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Angle of Attack

          Here's a little rough calculation. With a typical cruise CL of ~0.4 (I didn't calculate the Tcraft but that's a typical value) the cruise angle of attack would be ~2.5 to 3 degrees. If you change the cruise speed from say 95mph to 110mph the CL gets reduced by the square of the speed ratio with everything else the same. So CL = 0.4 /(110/95)^2 = ~0.3. The slope of the lift curve for the 23012 airfoil is ~1.1 degree per 0.1 CL so the net cruise angle of attack will be ~ 1 degree lower - at the same weight.

          Then the trick is to figure out how important that is. What's the change in fuselage drag per degree change in AOA? What's the change in pitching moment and resultant effect to the horizontal stab incidence and trim? If the weight goes up then the CL needs to go up and therefore the angle and you're back where you started. It's a delicate dance.
          Regards,
          Greg Young
          1950 Navion N5221K
          2021 RV-6 N6GY
          1940 Rearwin Cloudster in progress
          4 L-2 projects on deck (YO-57, TG-6 conv, L-2A, L-2B)
          Former Owner 1946 BC-12D's N43109 & N96282
          www.bentwing.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Angle of Attack

            Wow, Greg. I'm just impressed on how you could get your 'L' to drop below the C. Simply amazing!
            Cheers,
            Marty


            TF #596
            1946 BC-12D N95258
            Former owner of:
            1946 BC-12D/N95275
            1943 L-2B/N3113S

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Angle of Attack

              Greg,

              It was nice meeting you at DWH last week. I found the engine I was looking for.
              Richard Pearson
              N43381
              Fort Worth, Texas

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Angle of Attack

                Originally posted by M Towsley View Post
                Wow, Greg. I'm just impressed on how you could get your 'L' to drop below the C. Simply amazing!
                You are impressed by his subscript but I get nothing for Greek letters!

                ;-)

                Hank

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Angle of Attack

                  All of this is Greek to me, Hank. All I do is push the throttle forward and not pull back too far. As Eric Minnis would say, all you have to do is pull back to go up. To go down pull back a little farther.
                  Cheers,
                  Marty


                  TF #596
                  1946 BC-12D N95258
                  Former owner of:
                  1946 BC-12D/N95275
                  1943 L-2B/N3113S

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Angle of Attack

                    When the Nerds have done their jobs right, the rest will be able to do just that!
                    Hank

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Angle of Attack

                      Must be the winter weather and needing something to think about.
                      For info on other types check www.Supercub.org, and www.Shortwingpipers.org
                      My Vagabond has 0 degrees AOI built into it, a good
                      Supercub had 1.8 degrees AOI.
                      A stock Vagabond has a static AOA of 12 degrees
                      And the Piper airfoil stalls at 19 degrees.
                      Not the optimium for short TO or LDGs.
                      A guy I knew put clipped T-Craft wings on his Vagabond,
                      he said he didn't get the AOI right.
                      Lots of EXP Cubs are at 3 to 5 degrees AOI.
                      I wonder what others with a Taylorcraft type airfoil are using?
                      Dave

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Angle of Attack

                        For some reason, this thread was locked; I've opened it.
                        That's the second one today.
                        Rob

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Angle of Attack

                          Originally posted by Pearson View Post
                          Greg,

                          It was nice meeting you at DWH last week. I found the engine I was looking for.
                          Good to meet you too, Always nice to meet tribe members from other parts of the country. Glad you found the engine. I got my L-2's home from Fredericksburg. It took 2 trips.
                          Regards,
                          Greg Young
                          1950 Navion N5221K
                          2021 RV-6 N6GY
                          1940 Rearwin Cloudster in progress
                          4 L-2 projects on deck (YO-57, TG-6 conv, L-2A, L-2B)
                          Former Owner 1946 BC-12D's N43109 & N96282
                          www.bentwing.com

                          Comment

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