Undocumented Modifications (exa. sky light's,radios)

[DavidB]

My search for a taylorcraft continues and I have a couple paper work questions.

I looked at a plane that had an upgraded tail wheel but no correspondig paper work. It looked like a new addition that the owner had done. Would I need to purchase a STC if I bought the plane. The same could be said for the screw on oil filter and I saw no paper work for the sky light. How are undocumented modifications handled.

Should I factor in the cost of purchasing the proper STC's such as the sky light addition when determining the aircraft's value?

Thanks,

David

[Pearson]

Re: Undocumented Modifications (exa. sky light's,radios)

David, is this that plane in Kelso? If the airplane doesn't match the paperwork, there is a very good chance your I/A may not sign off on the annual. If you are ramp checked, an FAA inspector could violate you. That is not very likely unless he has the aircraft's logbook to compare it with. Also a mod may not conform to approved methods, techniques, and practices (AC43.13), which could make it downright dangerous. See Terry Bowden's post about the "Fuel Valve - Safety Reference". The bottom line is, undocumented mods can be a headache to get approved. But are you sure the mods you saw were truely "undocumented". Many skylights are installed on a field approval. Did you only review the logbook, or did you also see what is on the FAA CD? What did the I/A guy say about any of this? PM me at my Yahoo address.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Undocumented Modifications (exa. sky light's,radios)

Oh come on. I have run into a few bad FAA people, but none of them ever tried to VIOLATE me! I can't even imagine any of them being sexually attracted to me!

Oh, wait, never mind, you mean violate in the sense they would write you up for an out of configuration plane! ;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

A couple of things to put in here. To your advantage, I have yet to run into an FAA guy who had any idea what the configuration of a Taylorcraft should be. I had to show factory photos to one who said I couldn't fly with a home made exhaust. He had only seen one Taylorcraft before and it had an illegal Cub exhaust so he thought ALL of them had to have them.

Your IA is another story. He SHOULD know your plane and what he doesn't know you should be teaching him. He is your safety partner and best friend. Don't ever hide things from him and NEVER put his ticket at risk. You guys need to trust each other.

After that I agree with Richard. The changes could not only be illegal, but could be dangerous. These are great planes but you should expect to need to make some things right before you take the family for rides. My 41 was FULL of illegal mods. Not to say anything bad about the guy who sold her. I know him and he had no idea either. My solution was to go through the logs and figure out what the configuration SHOULD be. If the mod was illegal or undocumented I either had to make it safe and legal or remove it. I removed a LOT of junk from the plane. I also went through and made sure all the required changes had been made. Verifying everything from the logs made me a LOT more knowledgeable about my plane. It is WELL worth the effort, and your IA will feel a lot better too.

Check the logs CAREFULLY. Inspect the plane CAREFULLY. Compare the two and YES, all the changes to the paper and the plane should impact the price. Don't be surprised if the seller wants to wait for a less careful buyer and throws you out. If he does, you DON'T want the plane anyway!

Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Undocumented Modifications (exa. sky light's,radios)

IF its a scott 3200, its a log book entry only because it is PMA'd for a Taylorcraft BC-12series. You never said what tail wheel. Tim

My search for a taylorcraft continues and I have a couple paper work questions.

I looked at a plane that had an upgraded tail wheel but no correspondig paper work. It looked like a new addition that the owner had done. Would I need to purchase a STC if I bought the plane. The same could be said for the screw on oil filter and I saw no paper work for the sky light. How are undocumented modifications handled.

Should I factor in the cost of purchasing the proper STC's such as the sky light addition when determining the aircraft's value?

Thanks,

David

[fearofpavement]

Re: Undocumented Modifications (exa. sky light's,radios)

Undocumented modifications are common on aircraft as old as the T-craft series. That said it still creates difficulties. Some things, like undocumented repairs can have 337's filed for them after the fact. Mods are a bit more complicated because if it is something that requires a field approval (which are hard to get nowadays) it is best to have the approvals for those done first. Not after the fact. If the mod is a common one. ie, a skylight, it is possible if you showed a number of similar 337's for a similar configuration that the FAA may be willing to work with the IA to straighten the paperwork. If it is a mod that has approved data (such as an STC or old 337's) then it can likely be resolved with paperwork. It may require purchasing an STC. Sometimes, if feasible, it is best just to restore the aircraft to the original condition.

This is one reason it is worthwhile to have a pre-purchase inspection done by a mechanic familiar with that model of aircraft. I think many times the previous owners may not even be aware their aircraft isn't in conformity with the type certificate. The same goes for IA's.

Regarding the tailwheel, I wouldn't be concerned about that as long as the W&B was addressed. This aircraft is from an era when some were literally tail-draggers having nothing but skids. Another thing I encounter are mechanics that get all bent about the aircraft not being in compliance with part 23 standards forgetting (or not knowing) that the aircraft wasn't certified under that regulation.

At any rate, before I purchased an aircraft I would want to confirm the status of the paperwork and if it wasn't correct would ensure that it could be corrected or just find another one. There are lots of T-crafts and you can find one without those issues.