Price for a short mount??

[Pilot78]

Group,
I came across a few T-craft parts in the back of a hangar which includes a short mount in good condition. What would be a reasonable price to pay for the mount? I have seen what ACS charges for new. Thanks for any input.

Brian
TF#1023

[Pearson]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Brian,

I would venture it would be valued somewhere between 50 to 100% of ACS price. You mentioned it is in good condition, but has it been inspected? Obviously other factors are how much you want it, and how much the seller wants to get rid of it. If the seller is trying to get rid of stuff, they may take $25 for it. I would want to have it yellow tagged before I put it on my plane.

[N96337]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Brian,

I would want to have it yellow tagged before I put it on my plane.

Why? Inspected, yes...yellow tagged..not necessarily. Most of the people that really know tube structures, aren't in a situation to "yellow tag" a part. That takes a repair station, all the procedures, manuals, blah blah blah....
Also, don't automatically think that a "yellow tag" guarantees a good one! I've seen lots of CRAP that had a "yellow tag" on it, that I wouldn't bolt to a lawnmower! Use your head, and if you personally aren't or don't feel qualified to inspect that part for airworthiness, then get someone that can...usually that will be your IA.
John

PS...I'm interested in this thread as I too, have an extra 'short mount' so will be interested in the price....but don't expect any yellow tag! I'll tell you right now, I'd use it, if the one on my engine wasn't good!

[NY86]

Re: Price for a short mount??

...Most of the people that really know tube structures, aren't in a situation to "yellow tag" a part. That takes a repair station, all the procedures, manuals, blah blah blah....

Not necessarily. There is no definition of a "Yellow Tag" any where in the FAR's.

I found this statement years ago in an e-bay listing for a piece of avionics and saved it because it covered the situation well:

"Does a yellow tag satisfy the requirements of a maintenance release?

You must first understand that there's no legal definition of a yellow tag. Regardless of the fact that there are logbooks out there that are full of them, the term "yellow tag" isn't mentioned anywhere in FAR Part 43.

Yellow tags were first used by the Army Air Corps back in the early days of World War II. No reason was given why the color yellow was picked to indicate a serviceable component. Most of us would have picked the color green for serviceable and yellow for repairable – not the other way around.

I suspect, based on my own military experience, that the decision to use yellow for serviceable parts was probably made by an Army supply clerk who ordered a million yellow tags by mistake and had to find a use for them or be shipped to a combat area.

Regardless, after the war, the airlines stayed with the military tradition of using yellow tags as a serviceable item. Following their lead, the rest of general aviation bought in – and yellow tags became part of aviation terminology and culture.

The only FAA approved maintenance release under FAR Part 43, Appendix B is The FAA form 8130-3 a yellow tag does not provide any of the requirements for the return to service for avionics components. It’s all a myth and few yellow tags provide the information required by the FAA. And many yellow tags are placed on components removed from aircraft by A&P’s without the inspection required by the regulations, it is not satisfactory to turn the component on before removing it and then yellow tag the component as approved for return to service. The component must be tested and inspected according to the manufacturers specifications which cannot be performed any where else than in an FAA approved repair facility."

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Price for a short mount??

We may have one later too as we are closing in on our new cowl for the long mount. I made doublers today for the barn doors, we will permanently mount new Dzus fasteners tonight. Had to wait weeks for Aircraft Spruce to come up with them but they were shipped earlier this week so should be here to night. We have hinges made and the small steel plates to position the Dzus fasteners.

[Guest]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Not necessarily. There is no definition of a "Yellow Tag" any where in the FAR's.

I found this statement years ago in an e-bay listing for a piece of avionics and saved it because it covered the situation well:

"Does a yellow tag satisfy the requirements of a maintenance release?

You must first understand that there's no legal definition of a yellow tag. Regardless of the fact that there are logbooks out there that are full of them, the term "yellow tag" isn't mentioned anywhere in FAR Part 43.

Yellow tags were first used by the Army Air Corps back in the early days of World War II. No reason was given why the color yellow was picked to indicate a serviceable component. Most of us would have picked the color green for serviceable and yellow for repairable – not the other way around.

I suspect, based on my own military experience, that the decision to use yellow for serviceable parts was probably made by an Army supply clerk who ordered a million yellow tags by mistake and had to find a use for them or be shipped to a combat area.

Regardless, after the war, the airlines stayed with the military tradition of using yellow tags as a serviceable item. Following their lead, the rest of general aviation bought in – and yellow tags became part of aviation terminology and culture.

The only FAA approved maintenance release under FAR Part 43, Appendix B is The FAA form 8130-3 a yellow tag does not provide any of the requirements for the return to service for avionics components. It’s all a myth and few yellow tags provide the information required by the FAA. And many yellow tags are placed on components removed from aircraft by A&P’s without the inspection required by the regulations, it is not satisfactory to turn the component on before removing it and then yellow tag the component as approved for return to service. The component must be tested and inspected according to the manufacturers specifications which cannot be performed any where else than in an FAA approved repair facility."

I think that a certificated mechanic with proper tools and manuals can to this on many non avionic parts also

[mike lutz]

Re: Price for a short mount??

was one on e-bay other day for 350.00.Dont know if it ever sold or not.A few years ago I bought a nice one for 150.00.

[N96337]

Re: Price for a short mount??

At a CRS (certified repair station) a maintenance release tag is universally known as a "yellow tag" . This is what I was referring to and I assumed what Richard was referring to. Not avionics. If you don't think color has anything to do with it, try mixing colors sometime and see how your next repair station check goes with the FAA!! I totally disagree with the 8130-3 statement... here's a quote of 14CFR 43, appendix B, from the FAA website..

(b) For major repairs made in accordance with a manual or specifications acceptable to the Administrator, a certificated repair station may, in place of the requirements of paragraph (a)—

(1) Use the customer's work order upon which the repair is recorded;

(2) Give the aircraft owner a signed copy of the work order and retain a duplicate copy for at least two years from the date of approval for return to service of the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance;

(3) Give the aircraft owner a maintenance release signed by an authorized representative of the repair station and incorporating the following information:

(i) Identity of the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller or appliance.

(ii) If an aircraft, the make, model, serial number, nationality and registration marks, and location of the repaired area.

(iii) If an airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance, give the manufacturer's name, name of the part, model, and serial numbers (if any); and

(4) Include the following or a similarly worded statement—

“The aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance identified above was repaired and inspected in accordance with current Regulations of the Federal Aviation Agency and is approved for return to service.

Pertinent details of the repair are on file at this repair station under Order No. ___,

Date____________________
Signed____________________

For signature of authorized representative)

Repair station name) (Certificate No.)

____________.”

(Address)

No where in 43 appendix B does it even mention an 8130-3.

[Pearson]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Wow, I go to my EAA meeting this evening and when I get back I find I stirred up the pot a little. I am not a mechanic, just a lowly aircraft owner. But I have had dealings with several certified repair stations, and have gotten parts back that had been inspected and or overhauled. My understanding, and some of you IA types can please correct me if I am wrong, is that the yellow tag is part of a larger paper trail that the repair station originates when it inspects or overhauls a part. All of the yellow tags I have ever gotten had a W.O.# on them, which meant you could contact that repair station and find out details of what was done to that part.

My only reason for suggesting a used engine mount have a yellow tag was so that someone didn't install a mount that had cracks or rust, etc. Unless you know the person selling the part, there are some people out there that will sell you junk, ie; lift struts that don't pass their inspection. Of course, if you have a dye penatrant kit, and know how to use it, you could do it yourself. But then, if you don't inspect things every day are you sure you aren't going to miss a tiny little hairline crack. Pay the money and have it inspected by a pro. A bad motor mount could cause sudden weight and balance problems.

[NY86]

Re: Price for a short mount??

My understanding, and some of you IA types can please correct me if I am wrong, is that the yellow tag is part of a larger paper trail that the repair station originates when it inspects or overhauls a part.

Not necessarily. I can pull a part off a junk airplane and fill out a "yellow tag" and pretty much write whatever I want on it. I can even have my wife fill it out. It carries no regulatory weight and has no defined meaning. Most importantly, it is no guaranty the part is airworthy.

Now, if the yellow tag refers to a work order from a CRS, then that means something (the work order, not the yellow tag.)

Bottom line, "Yellow Tag" is not defined in the FAR's, is not required anywhere in the FAR's and isn't even mentioned anywhere in the FAR's, therefor it, in and of itself, carries no weight with respect to the FAR's.

[N96337]

Re: Price for a short mount??

My understanding, and some of you IA types can please correct me if I am wrong, is that the yellow tag is part of a larger paper trail that the repair station originates when it inspects or overhauls a part. All of the yellow tags I have ever gotten had a W.O.# on them, which meant you could contact that repair station and find out details of what was done to that part.

Yes Richard, your understanding is exactly right. I'm not sure what the hell NY86 is trying to say, but the standard description "yellow tag" refers to a maintenance release tag from a CRS, and it usually carries the info for the paper trail pertaining to that part. I suppose some idiot could fill out a tag that happened to be yellow... but that's not what is commonly refered to as a "yellow tag" and not what you were refering to, from what I read. It has nothing to do with IA's...just repair stations.
John

[NY86]

Re: Price for a short mount??

I suppose some idiot could fill out a tag that happened to be yellow... but that's not what is commonly refered to as a "yellow tag" and not what you were refering to, from what I read.

My idiot point is that it happens all the time. You can purchase yellow tags with pre-printed blanks to fill in. They mean nothing, but they look good and a lot of people think the mean something more than they do, which is that someone looked at the part and thought it was worth reusing.

When I ran a parts business we had a box of 1000 of them. We used them to keep track of used parts, but, the tag itself had no official status.

[Pearson]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Well my point was, and still is, that I personally would not put a used part on my plane that had not been inspected by either a certified repair station or an IA. I guess it would depend on the nature of the part. When I bought my project plane, it came with 4 "yellow tagged cylinders". When I called the shop that had rebuilt the cylinders and put the yellow tags on, they said it had been too long ago and they didn't have the records anymore. I took the cylinders to a local CRS and had them inspected. The shop said the cylinders were as good as new and issued new yellow tags. They charged me a tear down and reassembly charge. But I felt it was money well spent for the peace of mind it brought me. Now if you are buying used glove box doors, or something like that, I wouldn't have a bit of problem putting them on. But a prop is a a serious part of the airplane to me. I would want the peace of mind of knowing it had been looked at by someone that knows about props before I put it on my bird. But that is just me. I guess we all have our own levels of comfort.

[astjp2]

Re: Price for a short mount??

Actually an 8130-3 is in the FAR's, I will have to look again where its at but it is in the IA Written exam, it is an export compliace tag that releases the product to be used on any aircraft. Not only CRS's use them, all PMA manufacturers are required to issue them for class 3 products. A yellow tag is a genaric term used for a maintenance release. Most repair station's certificates requre them to issue 8130's not yellow tags. We had Yellow tags when I was in the Air Force in the 90's, there were also brown, blue, red, green.
Yellow = serviceable
Red = unserviceable
brown = requires test
green = repairable
blue = requires modification

I went into the Army after my tour in the Air Force, they also use the same tags.

look at item 13 below

30 seconds with google.... http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...a/8130-3qa.pdf

[astjp2]

Re: Price for a short mount??

So Pearson, if an A&P inspects the part, you wont accept it? What are the 3 things an A&P with an IA in allowed to perform that a basic A&P cannot?

1. Perform an annual.
2. Perform assembly inspection of a non spur type engine gear box (planatary.
3. Return to service after a major repair or alteration.

Well my point was, and still is, that I personally would not put a used part on my plane that had not been inspected by either a certified repair station or an IA. I guess it would depend on the nature of the part. When I bought my project plane, it came with 4 "yellow tagged cylinders". When I called the shop that had rebuilt the cylinders and put the yellow tags on, they said it had been too long ago and they didn't have the records anymore. I took the cylinders to a local CRS and had them inspected. The shop said the cylinders were as good as new and issued new yellow tags. They charged me a tear down and reassembly charge. But I felt it was money well spent for the peace of mind it brought me. Now if you are buying used glove box doors, or something like that, I wouldn't have a bit of problem putting them on. But a prop is a a serious part of the airplane to me. I would want the peace of mind of knowing it had been looked at by someone that knows about props before I put it on my bird. But that is just me. I guess we all have our own levels of comfort.