Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

[Guest]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Thanks Garry,

This is an aside but...

The Taylorcraft parts manual from the '80s listed dacron or ceconite envelopes for recovering and could be purchased.

I knew an IA who back around 1998 used that as a means of covering a bc12d with dacron/ceconite without an STC.

He has elated to get a copy of my parts book that supplied the evidence that he needed.

Have you ever heard of that being done?

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

another question - there was a time when heat guns were ok to use. Does anyone recall when it changed?

(I see the heat gun recommended in the 1996 Randolph process manual. I undertstand that is outdated.)

Dave

[T.Taylor]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

This reminds me of a L-4 I was to take to OSH to try and sell, it had the standard Army OD paint job, all was fine, til I left it outside on the way North, the next morning was foggy and cool, my heart almost stopped when I walked around the plane and the fabric was all baggy and hanging on the under structure, I knew exactly what had been done, I can not imagine taking off with the fabric like that. After it warmed up, all was fine, while at OSH I was careful to face the tail East so the sun would warm it up ASAP, last year at OSH with the DC-3/C-47 crowd there, I walked by them early in the AM, and saw a rudder on a -47 with the fabric hanging loosely, I'll always use a calibrated iron, T.

[Guest]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

wow!

I have never seen that.

It sounds aweful.

Dave

[T.Taylor]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

[QUOTE=drude;66627]wow!

I have never seen that.

It sounds aweful. Awful isn't quite the word for it, what would happen, well I know, but what would happen if a guy got in the plane without doing a walk around and tried to fly with the fabric like that??, it sure looks bad and strange,

[flyguy]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

"The fabric is the same except for the lubricants that are used when making it."

So if I used Ceconite fabric or "dacron" with Polyfiber coatings instead of Polyfiber fabric there would be some kind of FUNCTIONAL problem?

Darryl

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Dave,
I wasn't aware of that, but I would suspect that the late Taylorcrafts (F-19 etc) were covered with some type of dacron. If so, and Forrest can probably answer that, it would be legal without an STC for those airplanes since that was factory original.

Darryl,
I'll let those more knowedgable than me comment on your question. I've always used Ceconite fabric with the Ceconite process and Poly Fiber fabric with the Poly Fiber process per the respective procedure manuals to be legal. Some of my homebuilder buddies have mixed the fabrics and processes with no apparent problems. I do know that using the Stewart System, any FAA approved dacron fabric is legal to use per their procedures manual page 1: "This manual is a guide in covering and finishing your fabric covered aircraft using Ceconite, Superflite, Polyfiber, or any other polyester/Dacron fabric which is FAA approved and meets the requirements of TSO C15d/AMS 3806D,"

Garry

[astjp2]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Ask Steve Wittman, oh you cant because his wing fabric peeled apart because he mixed processes....

"The fabric is the same except for the lubricants that are used when making it."

So if I used Ceconite fabric or "dacron" with Polyfiber coatings instead of Polyfiber fabric there would be some kind of FUNCTIONAL problem?

Darryl

[flyguy]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Thanks for that highly technical, and helpfully accurate response.

Using the same criterion I guess the horizontal stabilizers and the elevators that I covered on my first Taylorcraft 25 years ago, which is still flying at a local airport, must be just dumb luck?

And the large wing patches under and on top of my present Taylorcraft wings, that have been there for about 5 years or so, and still check perfect, are just some kind of rare anomaly?

As far as I know/remember they were both done with Ceconite fabric and for sure Polyfiber process coatings.

I will say that generally you are right, it is not a good idea to mix stuff, but apparently Stits coatings will work with Ceconite. (DON'T ANYONE USE IT BASED ON MY COMMENTS, PLEASE.)
DC

Edit: Just checked my aircraft spruce receipts folder and it was Ceconite 101. I'm a baaaad boy. But I did use Stits pinked tape!

I heard/read the top plywood on the wing was improperly glued on Whitman's plane and came off.

[Ray36048]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Steve Wittman's crash was because he applied the fabric and then rubbed the glue through the fabric. The fabric then separated at the trailing edge and ballooned up causing the aileron to flutter. This was well documented in the EAA magazine.

Fabric that is not at the correct tension can balloon. The glue is very strong in shear, but very weak tension caused by pealing.

This is why it is very important to buy, read and follow the manual. The STC requires a great deal of testing to satisfy the FAA. The testing procedures and results are shown in the Poly Fiber manual. If you have a better way, you can work with the FAA to get your own STC.

Steve’s airplane was experimental and he was free to do whatever he wanted. He like the manufacture is then responsible for the results.

[mhorowit]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

My question, as an A&P/IA, is for those of you covering your Taylorcraft, or any certificated aircraft: Where is your A&P/IA in this process? The person that is going to approve the work performed, and your airplane for return to service, needs to be intimately involved from day 1. The internet is a great tool with lots of information. Unfortunately a lot of that information is bad.

Garry

Garry - I talk over what I'm going to do with my A&P, then in about a week I show him what I did. Problem is, there is no way (that I'm aware of) to test a glue joint; I'm going to do some off-structure testing to gain some level of understanding of how the glue works; that way I'll be comfortable - Mike

[crispy critter]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Mike,
DO NOT USE A HEAT GUN!!! Also,don't use taunting dopes unless the process you are using says so. As for the iron....20 degrees will not make a big difference either way but don't go over 350 degrees. Several passes with the iron will help even it out. With dacron fabric(ceconite or polyfiber) start out at around 250 degrees and make a couple passes over each side. I like to make a pass with the iron kinda like you would spray a cross coat of dope,move the iron up and down on the first pass then side to side on the second pass. Most manual will tell you to start in the middle and work to the edges but I find it is sometimes easier if you start at the edges and go to the center(especially if you have some not-so-perfect glued edges). I usually start at the edge with a side to side pass then on the second pass I will start in the center and go front to back. Starting at 250 degrees for the first two passes then going up about 25 degrees at a time. One method I like to use to test the tightness of the fabric is what is called a dime test. Drop a dime from about 12 inches and it should bounce one good time followed by a hope. It sounds a little old school but it works for me. Hope this helps.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Dime test works great on the stab but not so well on the fin. Every time I throw a dime at it, it just bounces off and lands on the floor with no little "hop" after the bounce.

Hank ;-)

[Guest]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Lol

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Covering... stabilizing the iron temp?

Damn! We were doing it wrong all this time. The plane was getting a bit scuffed up.
L