Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

[astjp2]

Got this on AMT, must be a cessna mechanic that was suprised to find cracked spars!

Most mechanics on the older fabric aircraft know to how look and where.....IMHO. Tim

http://www.amtonline.com/pdf/alerts/2011_08_Alert.pdf

I think it starts on page 7.

[freightpilot27]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

I dont think he is a dumb a$$. but my guess is he worked for the airlines for the first 5 years right out of A&P school.
now he thinks he knows everything and decided to do the inspection on one of his airline pilot buddys Tcraft as a favor.
But obviously, he knows nothing about wood, fabric, or even aluminum thinner than .060".

[magman]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

WHY the criticism?

A & P finds cracked spars.

Sends data so it can be published in "Airworthiness Alerts".

Other Tech may see this & just might save someone's life.

Not everyone (including MYSELF) knows everything.

Doctors only have 2 models.

A & P's have Piper, Lear, Bell, Cessna, Taylorcraft, Boeing, TCM, Slick, Bendix, Marvel-Schebler, etc, etc.

[Doc]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

I have some spars with cracks like this in my shop. One of the spars sits in the DME shop on my field as an example to mechanic candidates regarding how to inspect wood. The others are used to support wings and such on saw horses when I paint them. The new spars that I fabricated are on on the flying T-Craft. Not too many A&Ps admit to being comfortable with wood structures. Doc

[magman]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

Doc

That sounds like a GREAT use for defective parts.

It could be a tax deduction if donated to some agencies as well.

Using these "cadavers" for training is transferring the skills to the folks that do not have "Chrome Hair" yet.

Pics like these would be a good addition to the T-Craft Inspection Manual.

Knowing exactly WHERE cracks occur is very important.

There may be some folks that don't want an IA to find the cracks though!



Wood is more of an "Antique Art" rather than CURRENT aircraft production.

1 reason many A & P's are unfamiliar with this material is the A & P Curriculum per FAR 147.

Tasks are assigned a Skill Level of 1,2,or 3.

1 is pretty much a "Theory Only" item.

3 is "Return to Service".

FAR 65 states a Tech should not do any task "for real" unless they have training or experience in that area.

Wood is a Level 1 item.

The newly minted "A" will have to gain further experience with wood or other tasks BEFORE

doing many repairs.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

There is nothing wrong with US training our A&Ps and IAs. We need to educate them on these things and show them the resources available here. If your mechanic has a question, get him in touch with one of the A&Ps, IA's,engineers or other experts here. It is still his signature and responsibility, but he can make an EDUCATED assessment with REAL information, instead of looking at a book that cold have been written by someone who had never actually seen the problem either. We need to grow our own good mechanics. They make great friends who really fall in love with our type of flying.
Hank

[cvavon]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

I have read this post and can't figure out way you call the man that posted the photos a dumb ass as he did find them and made the repairs if that is dumb well i gess all A&P's are dumb because this is what they do for us find defects for us to keep us SAFE !!!!!!! Chuck

[astjp2]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

He was a DUMB A$$ because he notified the FAA, this is one way they can use the data to create AD's. How many of you can AFFORD to pull your wings, remove the fabric and inspect the spars. If they AD this, and dont allow borescope, then its gets expensive real quick.

Besides I just enjoy stirring the pot, it keeps the forum active. Tim

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

Stopping an FAA AD that does not improve safety (anybody know of any of those?) is a primary reason for us educating our mechanics. I don't know of any tech types who don't want to provide safe affordable planes, but we all know how the FAA will default to the most Draconian, conservative action on anything they are presented (and occasionally throw expensive, useless technology at the problem that does NOT improve safety). It is up to US to make sure our A&Ps and IAs know what they are looking at. Make sure your maintenance support knows YOU have access to the best possible information on how to keep your baby safe (and it is HERE, NOT from an FAA advisory!).
Hank

[Eagleavn]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

He was a DUMB A$$ because he notified the FAA, this is one way they can use the data to create AD's. How many of you can AFFORD to pull your wings, remove the fabric and inspect the spars. If they AD this, and dont allow borescope, then its gets expensive real quick.

Besides I just enjoy stirring the pot, it keeps the forum active. Tim

Wow....
After reading this post i almost usubscribed to this list......I have been to numerous crash sites and found stuff.....ah never mind.....

Good luck with that FAA mentality, let me know how hat works out for you.......

Lloyd Perkins
A&P/I/A
32 years and counting.


OBTW....never worked on an Airliner, hope i never do......

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

Having worked with the FAA for more than a few years myself I think it would be a good idea to let everyone here know that the FAA is NOT infested with mind numbed, manual obsessed idiots. If fact there is a huge majority that are hard working, thoughtful and helpful individuals. Unfortunately as with most large organizations, it take VERY FEW in positions of power to really screw everything up. That is true of organizations from Federal Governments to Boy Scout Troops. The FAA probably has between 2% and 5% screw balls from my exposure, which is actually LOWER than NASA by a healthy margin. The problem is some of the worst of them are in positions of high responsibility and have the power to make some really disastrous decisions on a regular basis.

Hank

By the way, if you work for the FAA and wonder if you are one of the idiots, don't worry. I have never met one of the idiots yet who had the slightest idea he was dumb as a box of bricks.

If you work for NASA and think that makes you a low level God of some sort, you definitely are one of the idiots, but then, you won't be listening to anything I say anyway.

If any of this insults you, maybe I hit a nerve that is still firing in your brain and there is still a chance to save your intellectual capability. Take this as an opportunity to become someone useful to the rest of the world. For the rest of us, take one of the good FAA guys out for a cup of coffee and a flight on a nice day.

[astjp2]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

[N96337]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

I'd say the mechanic did the right thing. If enough show up with cracks, maybe it would warrant an AD. Not all AD's are "trumped up" bs. Some are actually a good thing.
John

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

Absolutely, and I would contact the SAD in Kansas City myself if I saw something dangerous, BUT, I would be all over this site long before they could get through all of the red tape to take action. I would use the same model I used with the Navy. When we had a problem with the A-6 our engineers and technicians were at Oceana the same day. We would usually have all the aircraft inspected and back operational before NAVAIR had done their "evaluation". When the grounding was issued the public would be asking why all the planes were still flying. It was because we had already fixed them.
The Small Aircraft Directorate in Kansas City has some of the best people I worked with at the FAA. They just have to plow through SO MUCH bureaucratic BS to do their jobs. If we can become their trusted allies, we can help them and us. They have to focus on Cessna's, Piper's, Beach's and Mooney's, not our little puddle jumpers. If we handle it right, they will probably welcome our input. That DOES NOT mean every Tom Dick and Harry calls them with an opinion, it means the Foundation and the professionals here sort through the information from the tribe and present a well thought out analysis of the problem and an acceptable solution. If WE fix the problem before it is in their sights, they are going to let it go.
WE need to establish inspection procedures for our spars. I know I pull off the wing bands every annual and inspect the ends of the spars where they can be seen and would do it "on condition" ANY time I had even a minor wing tip tap on a hangar door. I would SURE AS H**L look at them after a ground loop where a tip touched the ground! That IS TRUE for the rest of you guys, RIGHT?!?!? (Everybody nod your heads). If we have a problem I would like for US to write the inspection before an AD went out. Obviously we would need to let the rest of the non-tribe owners know what we do, and that might be through an AD, but WE would have already complied with it and the FAA would have solid failure numbers before they went out.
WORK WITH the FAA, not against them. Everybody will be happier.
Hank

One of my instructors once about flipped when an FAA guy came up to me at the airport restaurant and asked if he could look at my plane. My instructor asked if I didn't understand that I was getting a ramp check. I said, "sure, but if they find something, I sure don't want to fly till it is fixed, do you?" It went off without a hitch, in part BECAUSE I was enthusiastic about showing them my plane. Neither of them were familiar with a Taylorcraft and I think we all enjoyed some hangar talk and it was a GOOD experience. Remember that over 95% of them are GOOD GUYS.

[cvavon]

Re: Another Dumb A$$ Mechanic

Hank

AS always you make very good point to the right way to do things. With my plane it has 14 inspection covers in each wing plus the root faring my AI is the son of an old time Missionary pilot grew up with rag and tube airplanes and when we do the wings at annual he spends at least an hour per side jest looking my spars were new in 1980. Also if you look close at the photos of the spar that started this it was one of the ones the factory made out of pieces and glued together look at end grain very different the spar is 65 years old old glue and old wood