Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

We didn't worry about that part (the cost of a nut). We were just worried about a fastener falling out at 600 kts. I have never liked self locking nuts and the idea of a $30M aircraft being lost because of a ten cent nut worried me, A LOT. I always seemed to default to a mechanical locking fastener. We wrecked a very expensive engine once when the locking ring on a blind rivet failed and went down an inlet.
I know the current manuals show elastic nuts, but they actually hadn't been used yet when my plane was originally built. I have also replaced every single Phillips screw in my plane with slot heads. Once I started I just couldn't seem to stop. Phillips head screws were invented in the 1930s by Henry Phillips and didn't come into general use till WW-II because manufacturers believed women wouldn't be able to drive straight screws without damaging the aircraft skins. Joke was on them. Women were actually BETTER than men at it. From what I could find, there were only straight slot screws and mechanical locking nuts in Taylorcrafts prior to WW-II.

[Buell Powell]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Hank,
I think the Univair reprint Service Manuel may have been from a later year.-My 41 had the original all metal lock nuts in some places-especially inside the wings and slot head screws--I don't think they had ever been removed but many of the old nuts didn't seem to have much grip once they had been unscrewed so I replaced those.Still have some of the old steel lock nuts and screws -be glad to send you some if you want to see what they were-I went back with slot head screws also.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

I lucked out and have a fastener specialty store that supports the shipyards within walking distance of my home. I actually have a running tab there. ;-)
He had a set of racks in back FULL of ancient AN fasteners. All NOS. I think I have almost cleaned him out. He said those rack were more trouble than they were worth since no one else seemed interested in them. I use to really enjoy sorting through them and putting them back in order. Of course I also tend to start straightening out the magazine racks at Barnes and Noble.

Hank

Come on, you guys all knew I was a little weird when I joined this group. ;-)

[M Towsley]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

What...??? I don't see a problem, Hank. There is nothing wrong with being organized.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

The bins in the fastener store are organized, the magazines at B&N are organized, my workshop is pure chaos, and well, you hear me on this group so my mind is never a question. ;-)
Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

So Hank, what are you going to do? Tim

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Good news guys, I had to go out to the airport to make sure everything is secure for Irene to come for her "visit" (put gear up on stands, check door security, get all the stuff off the floor).
While I was there I checked the wing and fuselage holes with drill bits. All of the wing holes were nice and tight on a drill bit except the RH rear one. An on size bit was a little loose but 1/64" larger wouldn't go in (the shank guys, not the cutting end!).
On the fuselage the front holes were tight on a drill bit shank too but both rear holes were a little loose. Again a 1/64" larger wouldn't go in. All the original bolts had the plating worn off, which made them slightly undersized, which is why everything was a little loose originally. I have a feeling if I pick through the bolts and take the ones at the top end of the tolerance, almost all of the slop will disappear. I know I am VERY picky about worn holes and maybe I overreacted to the play. It didn't look nearly as loose this time on the original bolts as I remembered. Kind of like when you see a snake. It's a 9' Python when you see it and a 2' Black Snake when your wife gets there.
Anybody know off hand what the hole tolerance is for the rear fuselage holes? At least I know they are all less than .020 oversize.
Hank

[cvavon]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

hank if you need castle nuts I have a lot of an 4 and an 5 also a few smaller ones also the tall ones and short ones here are some photos also the bolts are the call out size and are drilled for cotter pin i also have a lot of them if you need them will send them to you chuck

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Holey Moley! I thought I had a pretty good collection of old AN fasteners. Where in the world did you find all those NOS castellated nuts?
I need to wait till "Irene" clears out of the area and then measure the lugs on my fuselage to get the right grips. The old fasteners were not only loose and missing the CAD plating, they were too short to have washers. I will measure the lugs and figure the right grips when I see if my plane has floated away. I would really like to buy all new bolts and nuts for the wings if you have them. My local supplier is getting sparse, especially on the odd grip lengths.
Hank

[cvavon]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Hank i have 44 of the tubs with all kinds of you name it, as far as the bolts if i have them you got them i bought over 100 lbs of new hardware i have more then i will use the rest of my life also have thin and thick an washers i guess jest ask and will see if i have it so far i think i can build a tcraft with all new hardware and not buy anything let me know what you need chuck

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Will do, and thanks. Might be a few days. The hurricane eye is due to be here Saturday afternoon/evening. I think we are actually looking forward to the tropical storm part. We have been living with a peat fire in the Great Dismal Swamp near Suffolk airport where my plane is. The smoke is spread out as far a Richmond and Maryland/Delaware. In Virginia Beach this morning we are in the "RED" zone and they are saying even healthy people should not go outside. They said we need at least 6" of rain in one storm to put it out. The only thing really flying at SFQ seems to be the helicopters dropping water on the fires.
At least Irene will wash the air out!
Hank

[cvavon]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

Hank

Not a problem jest give me sizes and will see what i have be safe with the storm chuck

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Worn wing to fuselage bolt holes

I ALWAYS advise owners and mechanics to check the wear at this area before covering, welded washers are good , a good oxy acet welder can even shrink the attach ears, dedrill and REAM to fit ; mic the NEW bolts.
OR rumor has it that a "proper" reamer can be used to round out the holes and then "plate " the bolts to fit. usually .003-004 will do it. Check all new bolts with mics.