Glue and brake linings

[cvavon]

Re: Glue and brake linings

THANK YOU ROBERT my thoughts exactly most A/P s would think you were talking about your foot and send you to a Orthepedic surgeon instead of brakes

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Glue and brake linings

The deluxe riveting tool is the way to go. Rivet squeezer is OK too. The hammer-type rivet tool can lead to cracked wheels and lots of foul words.

An A&P is liable for work performed until someone else re-repairs that particular part. In other words, your A&P and IA are on the hook indefinitely. I do know an A&P in currently in the hoosegow courtesy of the FAA.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Bob, you should know by now that there is NO common sense in FAA regulations! If there is a parts diagram that shows rivets, there is an FAA inspector who will cite you for using adhesive. Legal is what the inspector says it is. It is REGULATORY not LAW and in the US you can't argue against regulations (not successfully anyway).
We aren't over-enthusiastic about legalities, we are just terrified of what the enforcers can do to us.
I couldn't fly for over a year because a flight surgeon decided to see if he could get the FAA to change the regulations on color blindness. I DID NOT WANT a waiver. I stated I didn't want it. I am perfectly HAPPY being required to have a radio and I don't want to fly at night anyway. He said he wanted to ask for the waiver to "see what will happen" and they pulled my medical for A FULL YEAR while they considered it. No matter who I called and told I didn't want the waiver, and no matter who I complained to about the flight surgeon, NO ONE could force him to withdraw the request I PUT IN WRITING I DIDN'T WANT.
This was a NASA flight surgeon that I was required to see for my job and he cost me a year without flying. I do not trust people with no responsibility for what they do. I wouldn't go back in that QUACKS office again at the point of a gun. Because of all the problems I caused HIM he demanded I surrender to him for a Scafoidectomy! That was the procedure used before the colonoscopy was accepted and isn't even USED any more. Think I am kidding? I am DEAD SERIOUS. I went to my Dr. who supported my refusal to submit. I ended up in NASA legal where someone finally saw what this JERK was doing.
I still had to wait for the FAA to fully process the request I knew they wouldn't grant anyway. A year lost because of a bureaucrat operating under regulations and insulated from law. Yes. I am afraid of regulations.
Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Well if an owner modified an aircraft, and the a&p misses the change, then the IA misses the change, who's A$$ is on the line if it gets found on a ramp or during an accident investigation? I am getting sued because an owner allegedly used autogas in an aircraft 6 months before the crash and subsequently quit using the gas 6 month prior to the accident. All I signed off was some pushrod seals but the FAA crash investigator was a friend of the pilots family and it seems to cloud the bias of the investigator. I have no problems if your IA wants to work with you but if you do it behind his or her's back, it becomes an ethics issue. nuff said

[M Towsley]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Hank,

It almost sounds like you were an experiment for what I am used to dealing with, which was case law. Once something was proved, or disproved, one could use that for future cases. Unless, of course, something else came along and changed that particular case law.

[magman]

Re: Glue and brake linings

My comment on non-compliance was not Taylorcraft specific.

Incorrect Spark Plugs, mags & even engines may be found on some aircraft.

Repairs that are not i/a/w the mfg data or AC 43.13 may preovide the Insurance Co. with a back door.

If you want to develop your own methods of repairs there are ways to do it.

AC ?? pertains to Vintage Aircraft

Experimental Certification

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Tribe,

Mike's Rivet tool looks good however you still have to drill and countersink the rivets. Which drill bit is used to do this job.

Frank D
N43684

[N5002M]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Have any of you ever filed an actual claim with AVEMCO or any aviation insurance company? I have!!!....they didn't even ask me for my log books. An adjuster came out, looked everything over and got my estimates (which being an A&P, I bid the work myself). One week later I got a check for $27,000. The plane was in the air a month later. My insurance went up $100 a year (whoopdy-do)!! The Feds..LOL...made me come in to the FSDO so they could lecture me about picking suitable landing area's (I had picked a soft sand bar and nosed her up.) They taught me to pick "a little less-crappie" places to land.

Quit worrying about the Feds and insurance companies and go fly the plane!!!!

[M Towsley]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Ah, yes. Alaska...the last frontier. Also the only place where the Feds think 50% compliance on having a pilot's license is accomplishing something. Your post says a lot.

A little story I personally know is true. A transiting pilot in a new light sport aircraft landed with a tire problem. Two local A&P's change the tire out with same size and type of tire. The pilot leaves and later in his trip lands and has the pleasure of a ramp check. The very thorough FAA inspector happened to notice the tire discrepancy, (not the same brand as the manufacturer requires), and finds that particular light sport aircraft can only have one certain brand of tire. (The manufacturer has since changed this so this sort of thing won't happen again). I know of two A&P's and a pilot who were not happy with the outcome of this, which could be perceived as a minor issue by most people.

This is what we in the lower 48 get to deal with at times. I have no problem about forgetting about the Feds and insurance and flying the plane. Then again, I try to stay within the prescribed boundaries to lessen the hassle. Don't worry, someday these fun and games will come to an airport near you.

[N96337]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Rob, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that when there's rivet holes in a wheel, chances are they weren't meant to be glued! This is the very type of thing that makes us IA's a bit tough to get along with at times! Just go get the rivets, learn to do them (not a big deal..I'm sure any of us can learn to!) and do it right! Even as an IA, I will play hell trying to get ANY modification to the landing gear (especially a substitute brake lining attachment) approved.... and for a good reason. This isn't rocket science people, but the rivets have worked since the 40's, and worked quite well! Don't try to reinvent the whole deal....if you insist on doing so, go experimental and save the regulated mechanics a whole bunch of heartache and trouble! Chances are you wont ever have a problem, but if you do.... we'll be in trouble with you...the difference being that WE (the licensed mechanic and IA) are depending on that license to make a living!!! If it gets pulled for 30 or 90 days, that puts a helluva cramp in our livelihood........think about it! I once did an annual on a plane, and a few weeks later drove by the guy's hangar and he had the cowl off the plane and was messing with it... when I stopped to see if anything was wrong, he was trying to put a mag back together...he'd wanted to see what it had inside it! I asked him for his logbooks, and when he gave them to me, I promptly cut the page out that had my annual inspection entry....told him he was out of annual and let my local PMI know. The owner was furious, but I was safe...and guess what...a few months later, he had an engine problem (imagine that)....I had saved my butt by my actions, but the next guy that had signed off an annual was on the hook. THAT'S the part that the owners never seem to think about when doing this sort of thing.
I never understand why that's so hard for people to understand......just do it the way it's SUPPOSED to be done, until you can get an approval to do it differently....maybe someone knows a bit more about why you shouldn't be doing it the way you think you'd like to!
John

[M Jones]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Tribe,

Mike's Rivet tool looks good however you still have to drill and countersink the rivets. Which drill bit is used to do this job.

Frank D
N43684

Frank,

Drill size is 9/64". Get the linings fit correctly in the drum first, then drill from the outside, though the holes in the drum, and through the lining. Use a 5/16" countersink to about 3/32" depth. I have a flat faced Dremel tool bit that works great. I think I picked it up at ACE?? I measured and marked 3/32 + around the countersink with a Sharpy, and chucked it into my drill press. That's how I got them deep enough without blowing through the linings. I did use the "deluxe" rivet tool. No hammering or forcing anything.

Edit: found this on Lowe's website: Dremel 5/16" High-Speed Cutter - Model# 115

[M Towsley]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Hey Mike, thanks for the info and the link. I have heard of several things being used, but that is probably the easiest item to use for the countersink.

[flybikefarm]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Mike I use the same procedure, except I have a mill with a depth stop. Greatest drill press you could own. George

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Glue and brake linings

Hey Mike,

Thanks much for the info. Hopefully I can return the favor sometime.

Frank D
N43684

[M Jones]

Re: Glue and brake linings

George, my drill press looks like turn of the century, made of cast iron, but nothing like what you have!

By the way, we're planning on making the flight breakfast at Hartenbower's airport on Sunday. My buddy with the RAF gyro from El Paso is meeting us. Maybe we'll see you there if you're free.