Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

[partyofone]

Hello all,

I recently got furloughed from my music teaching position in PA. I may get back for one year, but after that it doesn't look good.

I'm considering going to A&P school if I can get the training while on unemployment. I have several years experience restoring classic aircraft and I would love to continue that work.

Please give me suggestions on schools, if you know of any, and possible salary ranges in that field. I'm just starting my research and I know you all can help.

Thanks in advance,
Erik

[Guest]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Sorry to hear you got laid off Erik. It's a tough economy.

Try looking in Trade-A-Plane would be the suggestion that I have.

I recall one in Danielson, Ct from years past.

Dave

[magman]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

It seems the first 6 years or so I also received a layoff notice.

Events occurred that it did not come about.

Schools can be expensive & time consuming.

The goal may be to put a Cert in your pocket ASAP.

Why not start RIGHT NOW?

My suggestion to you & anyone involved in working on aircraft is to

DOCUMENT THE TIME.

After you have started your log showing N number, type aircraft, task , time date & HOURS ON TASK

you will want to contact the A & P you worked with.

Ask him to sign the log verifying your experience.

MANY small entries are better than 1 big one.

AD & parts research along with troubleshooting are all good time.

There is no "Flat rate time" you are allowed.

Remember YOU write; he SIGNS.


Go to CFR/ FAR 65.77 " Airmen other than Flight Crewmembers".

Specifically para 65.77.

It outlines the Experience Requirements to qualify for the A & P via the "OJT" route.

Since you mentioned Classic Aircraft I presume you have some skill with "Rag & Tube".

This is actually only a small portion of the "A" exam.

You need not have experience in every area ( Pressurization, Helicopter, etc)

It may be an idea to obtain the "A" portion FIRST to enable food on the table.



The fact you have teaching credentials tells me you have sufficient self-discipline where you WILL in fact do the studying.

There are many ways to utilize the A & P up to & including the Space Shuttle .

However; you WILL want to consider the job market in the areas you may consider residing.


The HARDEST part of obtaining the A & P is getting authorization to sit for the exam.

The FSDO will examine your documentation and; if sufficient, provide that authorization.

Working on aircraft without logging the time is a foolish thing.

You never know when having that ticket would be nice.

[1938BF50]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Northern Michigan University...Marquette, MI.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

There is also an A&P school here in Rockford, IL. However if you persue the "getter done on on your own" send me a note and I will give you the name and number of a gentlman who did it the way Magman explains. He has since retired from Kelly Springfield Tire and now does just enough to keep his IA active and gets free flying too! Not real far from you either as he lives in Fayetteville, NC. L

[magman]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Still another possibility is to qualfy for the "A" via your 65.77 experience.

You have to take:

General Written

Airframe Written

Oral Exam

Practical Exam

At that point you are at least 3/4 of the way to both A & P.


You could then:

Work under your "A" while gaining "P" experience also.

Attend classes for the "P".

BTW- Note the word "easy" is not included.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Take a look at http://www.aviationmaintenance.edu/ and see if there is one of their schools close. I know a lot of the guys from the Fighter Factory and the Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach who speak VERY highly of the Aviation Institute of Maintenance schools.
Hank

Remember, if your job is doing what you love, you never work a day in your life! If you love music, do both!

[partyofone]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Hank et al.

Someone on j3-cub.com said that most of the schools are for people just starting out and with little knowledge. May or may not be true, but I have about 2 years doing this. I wish I had all of my notebooks with my time. Not sure what happened to them.

If Dad was still alive, he could sign for me, but that can't happen now.

I'm thinking that if I decide to do this, the best way would be to get on as an uncertified mechanic somewhere, do the time, then get them to sign off.

We'll see.

Erik

[Ray36048]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Don't know where you are in PA. But, Penn State has a school in Williamsport, PA. Pennsylviania College of Technology. Both a 4 year and a 2 year degree.

http://www.pct.edu/schools/tt/aviation/ac.asp

[mikerice]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Hi Erik-
I have been working on a project to build an online A&P refresher school for several years. There are several problems with seeing this through to completion, including funding, time, and smarts as it is a complicated nut to crack.

However, along the way I built a software tool to self-evaluate your Aviation Maintenance experience. You go through each of the 45 subjects listed in FAR Part 147 appendixes (b) (c) and (d) for General, Airframe and Powerplant, and rate your skill level. The tool then gives you an estimate of your "experience well roundedness". If you are interested in the experience evaluation tool, I can give you access to it. The website is very incomplete, but the tool works ok.

The way to a Part 65.77 approval based on experience involves logging your time, and getting an FAA inspector to accept your log. Having a couple A&P's and employees validate it helps too. Once you get the sign off from the FAA, there are many Part 65 Refresher schools who will prepare you for the exams. They won't touch you without the FAA sign off.

I have also prepared a FAQ on this subject of getting an A&P license via documented aviation maintenance experience at http://northroprice.com/index.php/faqs

Good Luck to you on your A&P adventure, no doubt there are many of us here cheering you on.

[Edwin Otha]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Erik,
I wouldn't waste your time in trying to get the A&P. Find a career that you can actually make a living at. Your starting wage will be about $10 bucks an hour and after 10 yrs it will rise to $15. There was a time when you could depend on the airlines for the good job, but those times have passed. Use aviation as a hobby not a career. In general, aircraft owners are the cheapest people on the planet. Topping the list are professional pilots. They will brag to you about the brake job on their Mercedes costing $2200 and complain when you charge them $500 bucks for the Annual on their Baron.

If you still plan to proceed, go to an A&P school for the 36 months or have the experience on a DD214, if you have one. I don't endorse people for the certificate based on experience. They just don't have the basics and get into areas beyond their skills. I've been doing this for over 30 yrs. and would not recommend this career path.
EO

[jim cooper]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

I'm very familiar with your location as I drive from Baltimore to my hometown, Lakewood N.Y. quite often (Western New York State) I took a Bi Annual couple of weeks ago from a school principal who is getting ready to retire. VERY sharp, low key, good pilot. He seems to be quite busy. FBO owns the airplane, 150 hp citabria. He has some arrangement with them. This route MIGHT be better for you. St. College not too far away. BIG airport! He does tailwheel inst. only. He gets about 50.00 per hour. More fun than pulling wrenches! I think Ed Otha may be right! Best of luck. JC

[Craig]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

Good Evening

As with most career's there are always Pros and Cons. If you enjoy aviation, working with your hands, and receive a feeling of self satisfaction from doing a job well, then working as an AP may be for you.

As for the pay, it can range from the 10 - 15 dollars an hour in a General Aviation Shop to 15 - 18 dollars an hour for a Regional Airline, and the next step with the most pay are the Major Airlines. These are generic starting wages and all have the ability to "top out" after 10 years or so in the job.

You mentioned you are in PA. The Pittsburgh School of Aeronautics is a good school. There is also one near Philly.

http://pia.edu/

See this website for other schools

http://airframe-powerplant.com/airframe-powerplant-schools-pennsylvania.htm

The length of the schools vary. Some do just the AP courses in 18 month or so, others may be 24, etc. The schools that require the longer length are those that probably tie an Associates degree to their classes.

In most cases I have found that the old days of being able to show experience or work "in an Apprentice" type situation to gain experience, then use it in the hopes of an FAA person granting you a sign off to take all the written and oral tests are pretty much a thing of the past.

Kinda like the Field Approval for 337's are fast becoming a thing of the past unless you jump through an excessive series of hoops.

Good Luck with your decision

Craig

[lfries]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

In Calif. music teachers charge 50 a lesson (30 minutes). Sounds more financially rewarding than being an A&P or CFI.

[magman]

Re: Got Furloughed - Think about A&P School

If you are working for experience my suggestion is to have your log signed weekly.