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Probably need to start a new thread !!!
Mark, you suggested a new thread and i thought there was no better way than with your message!
Hank
I first learned about CAP successfully attacking subs at the USAF Museum. I was a regular museum junkie when I was stationed at Wright Patt.
The website above has more good info
Here are a couple lifts from the CAP NHQ website as teasers...
Also a photo of a famous painting of a CAP attack on a sub.
From "Global Missions", by H.H. Arnold, Harper & Brothers Publishers, New York 1947_Pages 301-302
"One time, a C.A.P. pilot saw a submarine cruising inside the shallow water area, but the sub paid no attention to the harmless little plane overhead. The pilot said he flew low enough to throw a rock or a wrench and hit the submarine, yet the U-boat in shallow water went moving along just like a cabin cruiser. When it was ready, the sub went out through a gap in the shoals and sank a ship.
I asked Gill Wilson if he thought the C.A.P. pilots, dressed in civilian clothes and having no military status, would object to carrying bombs on their puddle-jumpers. As usual, Wilson was enthusiastic and asked, "Where do we get them?"
Accordingly, I had special bomb racks built at one of our depots bomb racks that could be attached to these small planes in a very short time. We also built a cheap bombsight, and thereafter most of the C.A.P. planes carried bombs-fifty pounders the pilots could drop on the submarines, knowing full well that if they were taken prisoner in civilian clothes, they would not be considered part of our armed forces, but guerillas.
Before the C.A.P. had finished their task in the war, they had flown more than twenty-f our million miles, mostly in single-engine, small land planes, well out over the ocean. They also performed other tasks. They flew courier service; they towed targets for antiaircraft batteries; they tracked for searchlight crews; and they flew sentry duty along the Mexican border looking for spies. They spotted forest fires and helped put them out; they were used in time of emergency when there were floods or other disasters; they located one lost plane after another in mountainous and wooded terrain. In addition to all this, they furnished a reservoir of cadets and enlisted men for the Army Air Forces. They did a magnificent job all through the war, and they did sink some submarines."
Robert E. Neprud, was a contract writer hired by the United States Air Force in 1947 to write the History_ of the Civil Air Patrol. His book, the "Flying Minutemen", is, and still remains, the definitive true wartime history of this organization.__ Bob Neprud, with an almost unlimited travel budget by being flown all around the USA by the USAF to meet with and gather reflections of CAP veterans, to record their recollections of what and when they did things. This, combined with CAP Wartime records and history still secured in CAP's National Headquarters at Bolling AFB, Washington D.C., his task, though formidable, was made easy by the availability of the first-hand eyewitness participants and the records available.__Now some sixty years later with most of the veterans having passing on, and with each and every move of National Headquarters causing tossing and destruction of priceless CAP records, it's very hard to uncover the facts in this day of absolutes. Moreover, combined with the reluctance of the Navy and the military to give credit where credit is due... they said vs. we said.
*But what is known is the following:
As a result of its effectiveness, the CAP Coastal Patrol passed its experimental or trial period with "flying" colors. The coastal patrol went on to serve its country for nearly 18 months (5 March 1942 31 August 1943), flying in good weather and bad, from dawn to dusk.
The 18-month record of the Coastal Patrol all volunteer civilians, with little or no formal combat training is most impressive: it began with three bases and was operating from 21 bases at the conclusion of the program. It had reported 173 U-boats sighted, sunk two, and had dropped a total of 83 bombs and depth charges upon 57 of these with several other "probables." Its aircrews flew 86,865 missions over coastal waters for a total of 244,600 hours which approximates to 24 million miles! The patrols summoned help for 91 ships in distress and for 363 survivors of submarine attacks. It sighted and reported 17 floating mines, and, at the request of the US Navy, flew 5,684 special convoy missions.
CAP Coastal Patrols impressive record, however, was not without cost. Twenty-six CAP aircrew members were killed, and seven were seriously injured on these missions. Of the aircraft, 90 were lost. But the impressive amassment of mission feats brought official recognition to many of the Patrols members. They were winners of Air Medals and War Department Awards for "Exceptional Civilian Service." These were merely tokens of the high esteem bestowed by a government representing a nation of grateful people.
*CAP Pamphlet 50-4, Headquarters Civil Air Patrol, Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6332
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: subchaser.gif Views: 5 Size: 28.3 KB ID: 5418
__________________
Best Regards,
Mark Julicher
Mark, you suggested a new thread and i thought there was no better way than with your message!
Hank
I first learned about CAP successfully attacking subs at the USAF Museum. I was a regular museum junkie when I was stationed at Wright Patt.
The website above has more good info
Here are a couple lifts from the CAP NHQ website as teasers...
Also a photo of a famous painting of a CAP attack on a sub.
From "Global Missions", by H.H. Arnold, Harper & Brothers Publishers, New York 1947_Pages 301-302
"One time, a C.A.P. pilot saw a submarine cruising inside the shallow water area, but the sub paid no attention to the harmless little plane overhead. The pilot said he flew low enough to throw a rock or a wrench and hit the submarine, yet the U-boat in shallow water went moving along just like a cabin cruiser. When it was ready, the sub went out through a gap in the shoals and sank a ship.
I asked Gill Wilson if he thought the C.A.P. pilots, dressed in civilian clothes and having no military status, would object to carrying bombs on their puddle-jumpers. As usual, Wilson was enthusiastic and asked, "Where do we get them?"
Accordingly, I had special bomb racks built at one of our depots bomb racks that could be attached to these small planes in a very short time. We also built a cheap bombsight, and thereafter most of the C.A.P. planes carried bombs-fifty pounders the pilots could drop on the submarines, knowing full well that if they were taken prisoner in civilian clothes, they would not be considered part of our armed forces, but guerillas.
Before the C.A.P. had finished their task in the war, they had flown more than twenty-f our million miles, mostly in single-engine, small land planes, well out over the ocean. They also performed other tasks. They flew courier service; they towed targets for antiaircraft batteries; they tracked for searchlight crews; and they flew sentry duty along the Mexican border looking for spies. They spotted forest fires and helped put them out; they were used in time of emergency when there were floods or other disasters; they located one lost plane after another in mountainous and wooded terrain. In addition to all this, they furnished a reservoir of cadets and enlisted men for the Army Air Forces. They did a magnificent job all through the war, and they did sink some submarines."
Robert E. Neprud, was a contract writer hired by the United States Air Force in 1947 to write the History_ of the Civil Air Patrol. His book, the "Flying Minutemen", is, and still remains, the definitive true wartime history of this organization.__ Bob Neprud, with an almost unlimited travel budget by being flown all around the USA by the USAF to meet with and gather reflections of CAP veterans, to record their recollections of what and when they did things. This, combined with CAP Wartime records and history still secured in CAP's National Headquarters at Bolling AFB, Washington D.C., his task, though formidable, was made easy by the availability of the first-hand eyewitness participants and the records available.__Now some sixty years later with most of the veterans having passing on, and with each and every move of National Headquarters causing tossing and destruction of priceless CAP records, it's very hard to uncover the facts in this day of absolutes. Moreover, combined with the reluctance of the Navy and the military to give credit where credit is due... they said vs. we said.
*But what is known is the following:
As a result of its effectiveness, the CAP Coastal Patrol passed its experimental or trial period with "flying" colors. The coastal patrol went on to serve its country for nearly 18 months (5 March 1942 31 August 1943), flying in good weather and bad, from dawn to dusk.
The 18-month record of the Coastal Patrol all volunteer civilians, with little or no formal combat training is most impressive: it began with three bases and was operating from 21 bases at the conclusion of the program. It had reported 173 U-boats sighted, sunk two, and had dropped a total of 83 bombs and depth charges upon 57 of these with several other "probables." Its aircrews flew 86,865 missions over coastal waters for a total of 244,600 hours which approximates to 24 million miles! The patrols summoned help for 91 ships in distress and for 363 survivors of submarine attacks. It sighted and reported 17 floating mines, and, at the request of the US Navy, flew 5,684 special convoy missions.
CAP Coastal Patrols impressive record, however, was not without cost. Twenty-six CAP aircrew members were killed, and seven were seriously injured on these missions. Of the aircraft, 90 were lost. But the impressive amassment of mission feats brought official recognition to many of the Patrols members. They were winners of Air Medals and War Department Awards for "Exceptional Civilian Service." These were merely tokens of the high esteem bestowed by a government representing a nation of grateful people.
*CAP Pamphlet 50-4, Headquarters Civil Air Patrol, Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6332
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: subchaser.gif Views: 5 Size: 28.3 KB ID: 5418
__________________
Best Regards,
Mark Julicher
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