car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

[jstall]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Now for the bad news...I have found that tank gas, that has not had the ethanol added, is shy of a needed agent to promote "clean" burning. I notice that I get a lot of smoke and soot on my landing gear even though I am running on the lean side. ?????

I just bought 100 gal of this stuff. I'm going to try to blend it with 100 LL to see if it will reduce the soot. The oil temperature goes up while I am running 100 LL so I'll find out if blending the 87 oct. with it will lower the oil temperature.

RonC

Ron, I run quite a bit of 87oct unleaded and unethanoled car gas, not much soot, but, also do mix about 20% to 30% by volume of 100LL with the car gas, per the Peterson recomendation.

JS

[jstall]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Hank, I couldn't agree more, this alcohol think isn't a good thing for anyone, its a political push. In fact if one looks into it, it takes more energy than is evolved to even make it, not financially responsible at all, Boone Pickens says drill baby drill, and I couldn't agree more, problem is, now we have run most of the heavys out of the country, due to regulations and the way the gulf disaster was handled, "they won't be back soon"

JS

[jim cooper]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Accoding to the budget office report, this week,ethanol is responsible for a 10-15 percent increase in food prices currently and the subsidy is over 6 billion dollars. Put this together with GIANT subsidys to big oil and it adds up to big time money. It should be stopped NOW! JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Corn is for TORTILLAS, not fuel! We are burning FOOD and it isn't even all that efficient! My car gets 10% less mileage (MEASURED!) with 10% alcohol in the gas, but if you get caught burning alcohol free fuel in a car you can get HAMMERED because the road tax hasn't been paid on the pure stuff from the airport.
We need to listen to the engineers NOT THE POLITICIANS!
Hank

[flybikefarm]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Just the facts.
11 cents worth of corn in a box of cereal, how much do you pay??????





corn

http://www.iowacorn.org/User/Docs/Iowa%20Ethanol%20talking%20points.FINA%208-9-09L.pdf

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

There are a LOT of middlemen in that box of flakes too!

"Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Hank

[jim cooper]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

WhenDwight Eisenhower was President (a good one) there were no air cond. tractors, combines, etc. with stereo, gps, etc. There have ,for many years, been gigantic political farm subsidies however, so your paying twice for the corn. Cellulose ethanol (Brazil) is the way to go as its MUCH more productive. Currently they are raising the 10% ethanol to 15% so you will have MORE of it in your gas shortly. Food prices on beef, cereal, etc have increased 10-15% in the last year mainly due to.....ethanol! Anyone remember the "PIC" program in the 80's? We paid farmers NOT to plant! Absolutley insane stuff! JC

[flyguy]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

My question is: if 75% of the airplanes in the GA fleet can use common as dirt 87 octane car gas (NO ethanol, NO Lead,) why cannot those 75%, of however many 100,000 owners there are, yell and scream until we get cheap gas that doesn't ruin our engines?

Yeah, I know the answer to my own question, but it sure seems stupid that it works that way.

Latest word on the original subject of the thread--the 85 engine is still running like a sewing machine; only 50 RPM drop on the mags, when I pull it through it is equally strong on all the cylinders and the plugs are still staying free of "cat sand."
Climbs like a maniac, as in 500 ft AGL at the end of the runway. I find myself pulling the power back after take off and or trimming the nose down, even at 80 MPH.

They can put most anything the greenies and bought-off politicians come up with in the gas and it is still better that that leaded crap. (if you do your homework.)

Darryl

[lawheelock]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

I agree that there is probably just 11 cents worth of corn in a box of corn flakes, but I wonder where all the "facts" came from in that Iowa link?
Quite a few of the "facts", I do not believe as presented so I would like to see the source.
The problem with ethanol in planes is that it absorbs water. We don't usually fly our planes regularly. Our planes have aluminum fuel tanks, (well most of them), aluminum carburetor bowls, and aluminum fuel lines all of which corrode from the presence of water in the alcohol.
I am a gentleman corn farmer and the high market price for corn is nice, but I would rather have pure petro to burn in my airplanes and cars too. They do not get more miles per gallon of fuel with ethanol which has fewer BTUs per pound than gasoline.
Larry Wheelock

Just the facts.
11 cents worth of corn in a box of cereal, how much do you pay??????





corn

http://www.iowacorn.org/User/Docs/Io...%208-9-09L.pdf

[Steve Long]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

So, a little ealier there was some discussion of TCP working well in reducing lead deposits in plugs and cylinders. Probably a naive question, but can you use it in auto fuel as well as 100LL without problems?

[crispy critter]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Ron,
We had a C150 for a while that went through a problem of the same thing for a while. Smoked a little on start up,black soot all over everything behind the stacks. 100LL helped but didn't cure it,leaning it out helped but did not cure it, we overhauled the carb and still no luck......turns out there was an AD on certin make cylinders(which did not apply to this airplane) and the AD said to replace the cylinders or re-time the engine to 24 degrees which is way to low on an 0200. We retimed it back to 26 degrees and not only did it fix the soot problem, we also gained about 150rpms static, a little over 200rpms on climb out,the engine ran smoother then it ever has. Check your timing. If your timing is good you might also check the mag points,etc.

Now for the bad news...I have found that tank gas, that has not had the ethanol added, is shy of a needed agent to promote "clean" burning. I notice that I get a lot of smoke and soot on my landing gear even though I am running on the lean side. ?????

I just bought 100 gal of this stuff. I'm going to try to blend it with 100 LL to see if it will reduce the soot. The oil temperature goes up while I am running 100 LL so I'll find out if blending the 87 oct. with it will lower the oil temperature.

RonC

[Jim Lauden]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Auto fuel in pa. Is getting hard to find, has anyone figured out how to get enthanol out of the gas? When you perform the test--and the amount increases at the water level, is that all the alcahol in that sample? If it is, could that be done on a larger scale? Would filtering the gas through a chamoi or multiple chamois filter the ofending substance out? I have seen pictures of bush plane pilots in alaska sitting on the wing and pouring fuel into a funnel with a chamoi in it. I had a funnel bought at a marine dealer that had a brass screen in the neck and have used a chamoi, it's slow going, but ya get clean fuel. Gotta be a way to get it out??

[lfries]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

A fellow pilot told me the gas at the exchanges/px on the military bases are ethanol free. I will check this out the next time I go to Lemoore NAS in CA.

[flyguy]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

Lloyd, that would be good to know, because if they can get it from the refiners out here, maybe we could too.
I think the unfortunate problem is that the refiners would want you to take 10,000 gallons at a time or some large quantity. So maybe a aviation auto gas "distributor" would be the solution.
DC

[RoN43220]

Re: car gas, ethanol, lead, ect.

I'd like to address the question of how ethanol removal can be done on a useable scale. I can't recommend doing it but it's pretty easy. I got a tall clear glass vase from Target. It's about 6" diameter and 24" or so tall. I set this in a pan with a drain line to a gas can. I fill the vase with water up to around 20" or so and mark that point with a piece of tape. I made a nearly 6" plate with a hose barb in the middle, a relieved area underneath and lots of small holes drilled thru' to the top surface that sits in the bottom of the vase with a hose coming up thru' the middle that comes from a bucket with a hose barb in the bottom. This bucket sits above the vase. When I make that plate out of plastics it floated, when I made it out of aluminum it corroded if left in the water. You pour gas into the bucket, it drains down to the bottom of the plate where it bubbles up thru' the small holes. When it spills over the top of the vase it flows down into the pan and drains into the gas can. The more bubbles, the more contact with the water, the more ethanol is removed. You see the level go up from the tape mark a substantial amount. Can be several inches for 5 gallons.

If you run it thru' again you may remove more and could potentially take it all out. To get the remainder of the gas out of the top of the vase just siphon in some water until the water level gets near the top of the vase. I've had zero water get into the gas.

Obviously I've been hesitant to describe this because, while it works, you better do it right. I've run this in my Taylorcraft lawnmower with no issue other than the unavoidable fact that mogas stinks. You get a few points decrease in octane but even with 87 the result is far above what my STC expects.

Ron