Painting Query

[mhorowit]

Today I decided to put a topcoat on my fuselage. I think I followed the instructions for mixing and diluting but I found when spraying, I ate up paint at a surprising rate. Then I tried brushing the topcoat on and it looks like hell, so I"ll recoat with the spray.

Question: covering the same area, will spraying take up more paint than brushing? assuming overspray is minimal - Mike

[Robert Lees]

Re: Painting Query

Some paints are made for brushing, and some for spraying. Never the twain shall meet. RTFM.

In answer to your question: no.

Good luck with the finish.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Painting Query

Dope and Latex can be sprayed or brushed (or rolled!) but they look VERY different when done. If you are trying to reproduce a golden age plane or a WW-I bird brushed dope looks really good. If you want a beautiful, deep, classic finish, I don't think ANYTHING beats sprayed and rubbed out dope.
I have seen a latex finish and it looks good, but I don't know how long it lasts, which application process was used or if the FAA wouldn't go into a rage at the sight of it on a certified plane.
Hank

I have seen a rolled dope finish and thought I would puke at the sight. STUPID idea! I have "heard" it looked pretty good with Latex on a WW-I replica. Latex seems to level as it dries.

[N96337]

Re: Painting Query

IF it's Stewart's, it can be applied either way, with excellent results. I've had samples sent to me that were brushed that I'd swear were sprayed (and vice-versa )

To answer your question Mike, yes there will be more paint used by spraying than there will by brushing. Transfer rates for brushing are higher. What sort of spray gun are you using, and how do you have it set? Tubes always use up alot of paint when spraying.
John

[mhorowit]

Re: Painting Query

IF it's Stewart's, it can be applied either way, with excellent results. I've had samples sent to me that were brushed that I'd swear were sprayed (and vice-versa )

To answer your question Mike, yes there will be more paint used by spraying than there will by brushing. Transfer rates for brushing are higher. What sort of spray gun are you using, and how do you have it set? Tubes always use up alot of paint when spraying.
John

Good morning John - Yep it's the Stewart topcoat and I'm spraying tubing. It's also my first attempt at spray painting (less cans), using the DeVilBiss gravity fed gun that was discussed about three years ago. I'm using 35psi, adjusted the fan for round. I mixed about 100 grams of Part A and the stated amount of catalyst and water to give me about 8oz of mix. it looked a bit light, so I mixed a bit less water with the next batch. That didn't take long because I got about :10 minutes of spraying time. I guess I was expecting a bit more time. Weather has turned nasty again, so I have time to order more.

I tried a brush, and it had lots of streaks; perhaps my technique is wrong. If you have a technique for brushing paint on tubing, I"d like to hear it. A better brush perhaps?

- Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Painting Query

Dope and Latex can be sprayed or brushed (or rolled!) but they look VERY different when done. If you are trying to reproduce a golden age plane or a WW-I bird brushed dope looks really good. If you want a beautiful, deep, classic finish, I don't think ANYTHING beats sprayed and rubbed out dope.
I have seen a latex finish and it looks good, but I don't know how long it lasts, which application process was used or if the FAA wouldn't go into a rage at the sight of it on a certified plane.
Hank

I have seen a rolled dope finish and thought I would puke at the sight. STUPID idea! I have "heard" it looked pretty good with Latex on a WW-I replica. Latex seems to level as it dries.

Hank - if you have a technique for brushing paint on tubing, I'd like to hear it. - MIke

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Painting Query

OK, no laughing. I painted my tubing on the 45 with a few $6 Harbor Freight air brushes. The fan on an airbrush can be closed down to about an inch so there is VERY little waste and the little air brush gets into all the little corners really easy. It works GREAT, just ignore all the guys at the airport who have never tried it. You want to start in the middle of the fuselage and paint out to the edges. Don't be tempted to start with all the long sections of tube. You want to reach THROUGH the fuselage and paint the inside faces of the clusters first, followed by the diagonal tubes on the inside and the inner faces of the tubes on the other side. That way you aren't always dragging the hose through wet paint. The LAST step is the easy part where you paint the outside faces of the long sections.
I started with a red tinted primer, followed by a second coat of white primer so I could be sure I got good coverage. I was using Epoxy and used about a fourth of the primer I was told it would take. I followed the Epoxy primer with custom mix Epoxy paint to match the original Zinc Chromate that was on my 45 from the factory (SO UGLY a color that Pettit made me sign that I understood I couldn't return it!). Evidently the factory mixed the green and yellow primer left over from the war and got a baby c**p color. REALLY DISGUSTING, but just like what I found when I took the plane apart.
Give the air brush a try. It's only $6 and you have to thin the primer and paint a little extra (NOT TOO MUCH!). I will NEVER paint tubing any other way again!
Hank

PS
By the way, I painted the fuselage with my sports car parked at the hangar door and didn't get a bit of overspray on it!

PPS
Also by the way, this is the 45 fuselage and I did it about 10 years ago before I bought the 41. It has been sitting in a barn for 10 years uncovered and there isn't a SPECK of rust on it! The barn is next to a brackish river in Tidewater Virginia where the salt air play HAVOC with anything steel. Other than all the dust (which has been cleaned off several times) it looks as good as the day after I painted it.

[mhorowit]

Re: Painting Query

OK, no laughing. I painted my tubing on the 45 with a few $6 Harbor Freight air brushes. The fan on an airbrush can be closed down to about an inch so there is VERY little waste and the little air brush gets into all the little corners really easy. It works GREAT, just ignore all the guys at the airport who have never tried it. You want to start in the middle of the fuselage and paint out to the edges. Don't be tempted to start with all the long sections of tube. You want to reach THROUGH the fuselage and paint the inside faces of the clusters first, followed by the diagonal tubes on the inside and the inner faces of the tubes on the other side. That way you aren't always dragging the hose through wet paint. The LAST step is the easy part where you paint the outside faces of the long sections.
I started with a red tinted primer, followed by a second coat of white primer so I could be sure I got good coverage. I was using Epoxy and used about a fourth of the primer I was told it would take. I followed the Epoxy primer with custom mix Epoxy paint to match the original Zinc Chromate that was on my 45 from the factory (SO UGLY a color that Pettit made me sign that I understood I couldn't return it!). Evidently the factory mixed the green and yellow primer left over from the war and got a baby c**p color. REALLY DISGUSTING, but just like what I found when I took the plane apart.
Give the air brush a try. It's only $6 and you have to thin the primer and paint a little extra (NOT TOO MUCH!). I will NEVER paint tubing any other way again!
Hank

PS
By the way, I painted the fuselage with my sports car parked at the hangar door and didn't get a bit of overspray on it!

PPS
Also by the way, this is the 45 fuselage and I did it about 10 years ago before I bought the 41. It has been sitting in a barn for 10 years uncovered and there isn't a SPECK of rust on it! The barn is next to a brackish river in Tidewater Virginia where the salt air play HAVOC with anything steel. Other than all the dust (which has been cleaned off several times) it looks as good as the day after I painted it.

Hank - I saved your suggestion from several years ago, and bought one from HF when I was next in there. Two questions:

- This one has a paint container that looks like it might hold an ounce of paint. Did you expand the capacity and if so, how?
- How did you adapt your compressor line to this device? it looks like it takes a 1/8" hose
- Mike

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Painting Query

I took the lid from a wide, short Salsa jar and glued the airbrush top to it (did a little surgery on the plastic airbrush body and cut the threaded part off the bottom). I didn't want the jar to be much taller than the original, but I DID want more capacity. The Salsa jar was perfect since it had a wide mouth for chips (not that the Salsa was the best I ever ate, but what can you expect when you pick food based on the shape of the container? Make sure it is GLASS! Plastic softens when you clean it.) For the clusters the original jar was fine since you could do 2 or 3 clusters with a single jar and after twisting into the fuselage to reach them you need a break after a few clusters anyway. Take plenty of band aids. The stand offs really cut you up and clean the parts carefully after a hit. Blood is VERY corrosive!
That reminds me. Keep the air brush PERFECTLY CLEAN! They don't work worth a C**P if any paint dries in them, and even a tiny fleck of dried paint will stop them up. Filter the paint and remember, cleaning SAVES time.
As for the compressor, I used my 5HP Sears I used for blasting with a second in line water & Oil separator with a second regulator (under $10). I mounted them in a box so when I pulled the hose and it pulled the regulator and filters over they didn't get broken. It REALLY helped to tie the big hose to my belt with the hose adapter to the little hose from my belt to the airbrush. If you pull on the big hose with the little hose you just break the little one.
Once you try the air brush you will find yourself using it all the time. I damaged the paint on my Pilots door and repainted it with the airbrush. Anything less than 4' on a side is easier to use the airbrush on than a jam gun.
Hank

[N96337]

Re: Painting Query

Yep, an air brush is an awesome tool when it comes to tubing! Well worth the money!
Don't fall into temptation like Hank says, and start on the long or outside tubing...it gets ugly quick. Patience is a virtue. I use a gravity feed Walcom ST touchup gun, cranked way down and it does a nice job, but they're not cheap and not worth it if you're not using it all the time. Brush, roll or airbrush is the way to go for an occasional job.
Mike, here's the link to the roll-on instructions for Stewart's. You might give them a call and see what they're recommending for brushing now a days. They're awesome people to work with.
John

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/downloadfile.aspx?file=~/files/s0kisd3/Roll_On_EkoPoly.pdf

[perryv1]

Re: Painting Query

I used the Stewarts system with great results but I found that you don't spray the topcoat when the humidity is high.Take another day and do it when its driier.It will save ordering more paint.(6 more days for me)!
PV

[mhorowit]

Re: Painting Query

I used the Stewarts system with great results but I found that you don't spray the topcoat when the humidity is high.Take another day and do it when its driier.It will save ordering more paint.(6 more days for me)!
PV

Summer in DC.. Hazy, hot, humid. I think my air is dry; I run it thru a coalessing filter - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Painting Query

Yep, an air brush is an awesome tool when it comes to tubing! Well worth the money!
Don't fall into temptation like Hank says, and start on the long or outside tubing...it gets ugly quick. Patience is a virtue. I use a gravity feed Walcom ST touchup gun, cranked way down and it does a nice job, but they're not cheap and not worth it if you're not using it all the time. Brush, roll or airbrush is the way to go for an occasional job.
Mike, here's the link to the roll-on instructions for Stewart's. You might give them a call and see what they're recommending for brushing now a days. They're awesome people to work with.
John

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/downl...On_EkoPoly.pdf

They have never pointed at me and laughed at my questions - Mike

[perryv1]

Re: Painting Query

I used the Stewarts system with great results but I found that you don't spray the topcoat when the humidity is high.Take another day and do it when its driier.It will save ordering more paint.(6 more days for me)!
PV

I spraied my topcoat,and It looked Great,Came back an hour later and it all blanced out milky white....Damn!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Painting Query

It isn't just the moisture coming from the compressor. You need for the outside air humidity to be low too. Paint blushes when the solvent doesn't evaporate slow enough and moisture binds with the paint. If you use a retarder it slows the evaporation of the solvents, keeping the surface from cooling too fast . When the surface cools from evaporation it causes the moisture in the air to condense on the wet paint surface.
Hank