Trying to decide...

[Merlinspop]

My first post on this forum identified a 42 BC-12 I was thinking about:

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft-for-sale/TAYLORCRAFT-BC-12/1942-TAYLORCRAFT-BC-12/1140266.htm

It's still available and the wife-imposed requirement of selling the GoldWing has been tended to. A potential buyer of the above plane was unable to obtain financing, so it's back on the market. I'm trying to gather some information (and then the gumption) to pull the trigger. So if you would bear with me and kindly give me some advice, I'd be grateful.

- There aren't very many hangar options anywhere near where I live in Charles Town, WV that I can find. Winchester and Martinsburg only have outside tie-downs, but both are 30-45 minutes from home. About an 1.25 hours away is a grass strip called Green Landings that has a couple of "Community Hangar" spaces available and a private hangar ($190 and $300 a month respectively). I know it's far from optimal, but can a t-craft survive outdoors with a quality cover? The whole reason to own a plane would be to fly it as much as possible, and every 15 minutes farther from home it is would probably reduce the number of times I take it up exponentially. Also, if anyone knows of a private strip owner close by that I can talk to to see if an arrangement can be made, I'd appreciate it.

- Maintenance: I know it's impossible to nail down a definitive cost for annuals (particularly the first one with a new IA), but would $750 a year (+/- $250) seem a reasonable for the annual and ongoing upkeep as a starting point for budgeting purposes?

- The seller, when he took me for a demo ride, mentioned that he never seemed to get a good signal using his hand-held transceiver. But I noted that he has the remotely-mounted rubber ducky antenna mounted horizontally. I'm a relatively new HAM, and I'm pretty sure that at least some of his problem is caused by the horizontally polarized signal he's sending out (everyone else is vertically polarized). Do you think I'm onto something thinking that turning the antenna 90* will help?

- I've never owned an airplane before. I know I'm not thinking of a LOT of things. What are they?

Thanks a lot for any input you all can give.

Bruce

[Merlinspop]

Re: Trying to decide...

I forgot to add another question - The first thing I'd want to do with it (you know, IF I get it) would be to add shoulder harnesses. Why they weren't added in the 2003 restoration, I don't know. Seems like the perfect time. They also took OUT the left wing tank. That puzzles me, too, but his reasoning was that he's only got a personal 2-hour endurance so why have something that can go wrong or leak if he's not going to use it. Anyway, I searched the forum for it, and found a lot of options, but nothing definitive. Would it be better to add harnesses that loop around the existing lap belt or just buy a purpose built set?

Thanks!

Bruce

[barnstmr]

Re: Trying to decide...

Bruce...
Go ahead and plan on Insurance cost of approx $1000 to $1500 per year. I recommend Butler-Brown.

Outside storage is sometimes the only option and is OK if you take the necessary steps to preserve the plane. If you keep the plane outside, invest in a quality cover and use it diligently. Tie her down according to the book. Lock the controls. Plug the cowl inlets, etc. Check on the plane every day if you can. I would try to make this only a temporary solution. Airplanes that sit outside will degrade much quicker. Sun - Rain - Hail - Wind.... these are all harmful, but somewhat manageable.

$750 per year on annual is perhaps reasonable. Mostly depends on the shape of the plane to start with. Lets assume it is cherry both mechanically and in the paperwork. If all is in order to start with and you do your own preventative maintenance routinely, $750 per year is high. These high annual inspection costs are usually airplanes that are neglected or ones that someone has been pencil-whipping or lying on the paperwork.

[jim cooper]

Re: Trying to decide...

A GOOD cover costs alot of money. Aircraft like taylorcrafts don't do well outside. In the old days, they were cheap to recover and ALOT of people knew how to do it WELL. Today, few know how to do it well and they charge big money. I'd find a good hanger BEFORE I bought any light airplane. In a taildragger conformation, ALL moisture goes to the tail and rusts the frame. Outside is a bummer.....but..if you must.....(I have a 2008 rebuild done by a PRO. I would never leave it outside...EVER!) jc

[Merlinspop]

Re: Trying to decide...

Inside storage is greatly preferred for sure, but here in the greater DC area hangars come with a decade long waiting list and run $600+ a month.

I really should move somewhere cheaper one of these days.

BG

[jim cooper]

Re: Trying to decide...

More: Buy a NICE T-Craft. Be sure its been rebuilt by someone you can check up on. Why they took a wing tank out is beyond me. Its not a good set up. Engine? done by who? Hours? If you buy a cheap one, it will ALWAYS cost more in the end to get it right, plus it could let you down at the wrong time. IF the T-craft was well done and is in good shape an annual should cost 3-400.00, NO MORE. Mine was done three months ago. It has complete logs, all paperwork is in order, price was 350.00. (The AI is a GOOD one, 78 yrs old and a tail dragger pro.) Unshielded ignitions need an OUTSIDE antenna to work a handheld with any degree of success. Its a BUYERS market so if you look carefully you should find a nice one for 23-26000.00. Any less, you will eventually fix things and pay MORE.jc

[crispy critter]

Re: Trying to decide...

Inside storage is greatly preferred for sure, but here in the greater DC area hangars come with a decade long waiting list and run $600+ a month.

I really should move somewhere cheaper one of these days.

BG

$600 per month!!! OUCH!! We just had a new airport go in 20 miles away and they have 14 brand new condo style t-hangars with paid electric,running water,and bi-fold doors. The apron has several nice airplanes tied outside because they simply think it's insane to pay $150 per month for hangar rent, I think they have 5 or 6 of them rented and the rest are empty(my cousin has one of them). Here at West Liberty if you want to build your own all you have to do is sign a 20 year lease on the ground for $20 bucks a month and when the lease runs out you either renew it or you can donate it to the airport for a complete tax exempt rightoff. You can donate it at anytime during the lease also. Most other airports in the area have the same standards. If you rent an enclosed t-hangar in central or east Ky expect to pay between $50-125 per month depending on how close you are to the larger cities and how commercialized the airport is or is trying to become.
Here's a pic of my cousins $150 per month hangar.

[DanBrown]

Re: Trying to decide...

[QUOTE= The whole reason to own a plane would be to fly it as much as possible, and every 15 minutes farther from home it is would probably reduce the number of times I take it up exponentially.
Bruce[/QUOTE]
Add in the time it takes to put on and take off covers (especially wing covers when you are by yourself and there is some wind) over rolling it in and out of a hanger. I've owned several ships by myself or with 2 to three partners. I'd prefer a partnership if I could find a compatible one -- reduces the cost and rarely results in scheduling conflict plus it is great to share experiences and sometimes fly together.

[Merlinspop]

Re: Trying to decide...

Jim - That makes sense, and with the antenna mounted at the windshield/glareshield intersection, it couldn't be any close to the ignition system if he tried.

Where/how would an outside mount be best accomplished?

Unshielded ignitions need an OUTSIDE antenna to work a handheld with any degree of success.jc

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Trying to decide...

Mine is on a small metal plate on top of the fuselage behind the headrest (easy to reach through the zippers in the headliner and just clamped to the tubes. It is just a wire whip connected to my A-22 handheld and works fantastic with almost no noise and great range. Had one on the belly between the gear and noise wasn't a problem but range sucked on the ground.
Hank

[LostnSpace]

Re: Trying to decide...

[ top of the fuselage behind the headrest ] Hi Hank, Do you have any pictures of the headrest, thanks, O.T.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Trying to decide...

Sorry, I shouldn't be so fast to accept spell check. It didn't like headliner and I accepted headrest. I fixed the second one but missed the first. No headrest in my 41, although my wife might use my shoulder for one.
Hank

[LostnSpace]

Re: Trying to decide...

Sorry, I shouldn't be so fast to accept spell check. It didn't like headliner and I accepted headrest. I fixed the second one but missed the first. No headrest in my 41, although my wife might use my shoulder for one.
Hank

Know how that goes, it is so easy - thanks for the response, I was wondering what a headrest may look like in a Tcraft. O. T.

[Pearson]

Re: Trying to decide...

Bruce,

I strongly agree with Dan Brown about the distance you have to travel affecting the amount of flying you do. I would beat the bushes to find a hangar near where you live. If you have to drive more than 45 minutes, you will not fly very often. I personally would not store my plane outside, even with a cover. The covers are expensive and time consuming. Also the covers will not prevent damage from snow loads. They also MAY not keep out bird or wasp nests.

Regarding annuals, the costs are affected by mainly the previous owner's quality of maintenance and your IA's willingness to find creative solutions to keeping the cost down. In my part of the country, an owner assisted annual runs $200 - $400, plus the cost of parts. I have spent as little as $250, and as much as $650. If you plan $750/year, you should have money for items that pop up between annuals.

Insurance depends on your flight time. Comparing what others pay only helps if they have about the same amount of time as you. If you have a lot of assets, consider more than the minimum liability. It is relatively cheap. But do shop around. Right now insurance is cheap compared with years past. Mine is $700 a year, but I have quite a few of hours.

Remounting the "rubber ducky antenna" will help. But installing a "real" antenna will help even more. I have one mounted on the rear portion of the boot cowl, between the landing gear. I couldn't ask for better reception.

Shoulder harnesses are good. You don't need to weld any tabs on the tubes. Just wrap them around the cross tube above and behind your head. Do NOT use the cross tube that runs across the top of the seatback.

If you get a plane with an A65 engine, I think you will find that 18 gals of fuel is enough about 99% of the time. If you decide you really want that other wing tank in there, check the resources page. There is a copy of a 337 for installing sheet aluminum over the top of the wing tanks. You can cut the fabric, leaving a flap all the way around that bay, and glue it to the inside of the ribs. After you install a tank, you put rivnuts in the ribs and attach a sheet of aluminum between the ribs.

The only thing I would add to your questions is make sure you get a plane with no liens, and no outstanding ADs. The lower strut attach fitting AD, and the wing strut AD are the two most recent. A plane with the new sealed struts, or even with the original struts sealed, would be worth a little more than one with the repetitive inspections. GOOD LUCK!

[n6346m]

Re: Trying to decide...

Bruce,
Don't let the fact that you can't find a hangar deprive you of the pleasure of having your own airplane. Everything in aviation is somekind of trade-off including hangars and maintenance. For example if hangar rent costs you $200/mo, in ten years you will have invested $24,000 in hangar rental. That can buy a lot of maintenance, especially if you take precautions as suggested in this forum AND you fly the airplane regularly. Flying the airplane regularly is the best preventive maintenance you can do for an airplane that sits outside. Be sure the airplane has adequate drain holes, and if you need to add any, I recommend using seaplane grommets as they will lightly suck the air out. If tailpost rot is a concern, you can do like a lot of tube-and-fabric airplane owners here in Alaska do, leave a small triangular area at the bottom of the tailpost free of fabric covering.

When I rebuilt my Stinson floatplane, I wanted to be sure that the fuselage drained completely of any water so I put the fuselage on the landing gear in a three point attitude and took a garden hose and filled it with water. I then went around with my soldering iron and put in drain holes until all the water drained out. I then put the airplane in a more level attitude simulating the attitude of the airplane on floats and did it again. You would be surprised at how many more drain holes I had to put in.

Prior to buying my L2-B, I looked at an Aeronce L-3 in Ohio. When the aircraft dealer who was selling the airplane took me for a demo flight I noticed that it was kind of doogy and tail heavy. I could hear water sloshing behind me. Upon landing I got out and removed the aft fuselage inspection cover and discovered water up to the lip of the cover opening. The side fuselage inspection cover WAS the only drain hole in the fuselage. The airplane had been recently "restored" and recovered and always hangared, so there had been no water problem until it was parked outside in the rain for a few days. Needless to say, I didn't buy that airplane. It's a good thing, because I would have never bought my L-2 if I had.