Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

[jim cooper]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Landing, to me is one of the best parts of flying. I like to be a little high, but if I'm not I slip it anyway. The T-Craft likes to slip and comes down just right to 5-10 feet off when I staighten it out and try to 3 point it perfectly. (Perfectly seldom occurs on asphalt but I get lucky on grass quite often.) To me, the T-Craft is just a great flying airplane. I'm lucky to have it and am lucky to have met Russ Hardy who built it. Afellow at the airport (W42) has 3 of them, one on floats. He also has a twin Commanche, A lancair, and a trophy Stinson 108. (which is for sale.) He, like me is 73 and says quote " The Taylorcraft is just a great flying airplane. He is a retired Physicist and some times flys the T Craft to New Haven Conn. to lecture at Yale. Currently he has about 2000 hrs. in T-crafts alone. Flys 5-6 times a week. P.S. If I land short, the T-Craft responds by my adding just a touch of throttle and slow flying up the runway, 2-3 three feet off, then going to idle and it settles right on, no bad habits.JC

[DanBrown]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

We all do. Almost all my landings contain a slip to lose excess altitude. The exception is usually when a longer landing is desired to avoid a long taxi on the runway before a turnoff.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

My teachers , Instructors, soloed in 1923 & 1930 respectively. You can bet your butt they would have never landed short. I still use high & slip or a wee bit high and final flap when needed.....

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

I also like Forest's technique of being a little high and having to slip a little, or a lot, or not at all depending on the wind gradient. That may be a good way to be ahead of any changes to lift on final approach due to themals and/or winds.

Frank D.
N43684

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Dan,

Your comments confirm my conceptualization of this issue.

Thanks,

Frank DeBartolo

[DanBrown]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

One of the issues is the wind speed gradient or wind shear on final approach. If the headwind component drops rapidly as altitude is lost, it results in loss of air speed and a rapid sink (or stall if the nose is not dropped and/or power added). Alternatively, if the wind speed or direction changes to give additional headwind, there can be a rapid sense of lift until the aircraft adjusts to the new wind speed. Some fields have a typical complex pattern of winds with position and altitude with terrain wind funneling, differential heating and shielding in the lee of tree lines, etc.. It can keep one busy..

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

I usually use a slight slip on final, better visibility and complete control of ups and downs. Increase slip if lift pops up, decrease if lift is lost. I have a great time soaring too, I use about 200 RPM above zero thrust or around 1200 RPM kind of simulates a better glider or sailplane.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

[QUOTE=Frank DeBartolo;51008]Hank,

Why is it that somethimes on an established stable approach there seems to be plenty of lift until short final then sink starts to occur and power is needed to make it to the aim point.

Beats me Frank. The only time I ever saw that was coming in behind a carrier in an E-2 and hit the "burble". Feels like the wings came off, but if the pilot just holds attitude it will bounce back to glide slope and land fine.
I only made a couple of landings on the carrier (USS America) and I am NOT a navy pilot. I was a maintenance officer and had to ride along once in a while. I DID NOT like the way the E-2 flew. What a PIG! Terrible pitch and roll feel systems, pitch change with throttle change, different yaw response between right and left rudder, TERRIBLE air data computer system to try and "fix" the handling. Just the opposite of the C-130. Fly it like a giant 4 engine Piper Cub. Just "plane" sweet.
Grumman built so many fantastic planes. I never figured out what happened to the E-2.
Hank

OK, the A-6 gear doors were built by Rube Goldberg, but at least they worked reliably.

[flyguy]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

At my home airport there is almost always a "jump the fence" batch of lift just as I cross the 4 lane road about 100 yards before the airport fence.
One sec I am right on glidepath and the next I am elevating upward with the nose pointing down. I think here it is from going from grass to asphalt to grass again; that is my best guess.
I think each airport must have it own oddities on final approach.

Rob, are those weird cloud formations from rotors? Terrain doesn't look all that rough--photo from high altitude?

On the volume control thing, I guess I had it happen once. Me and passenger, 65 hp, three tanks, probably over gross (what did I know back then?), inversion at about 4000 feet. Going up per normal and we hit the hot air and the plane just leveled out at climb power and at the same time we noticed that the temperature had jumped about 20 degrees warmer. Had to work for any climb above that alititude.

Darryl

[DanBrown]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Hank,

One other thing that you might be able to comment on. Why is it that somethimes on an established stable approach there seems to be plenty of lift until short final then sink starts to occur and power is needed to make it to the aim point. I find that if I want to make sure my power off approaches are successful, it is best to plan to be a bit too high when turning final and be ready to use slip if needed to make it to the aim point.

Frank D
N43684

You're getting the wing tip vortexes from the Taylorcraft Heavies landing before you.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

If it hasn't been mentioned before: APOD shows some nice rotor with lift:

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Hank,

One other thing that you might be able to comment on. Why is it that somethimes on an established stable approach there seems to be plenty of lift until short final then sink starts to occur and power is needed to make it to the aim point. I find that if I want to make sure my power off approaches are successful, it is best to plan to be a bit too high when turning final and be ready to use slip if needed to make it to the aim point.

Frank D
N43684

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Hank,

Thanks for the response on flying thermals. It's good to know that there is more to flying T-Crafts than casual sight seeing, cross country flying, and touch and goes.

Frank D
N43684

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

ALWAYS ignore that strong lift you seem to fly through on downwind to an emergency landing! Sucker lift has killed a lot of people!
Hank
Viagra in a sailplane to keep it up. What a concept! IS there still risk of sailplane damage if you stay up over 4 hours?

If you find you are still up after 4 hours, see your IA immediately!

Viagra, a pill non pilots take to impress their girlfriends
Virga, those shredded bits of cloud bottoms that indiate cool air is falling out of the bottom of the cloud.

[M Jones]

Re: Budd Davisson quip about Taylorcrafts at Oshkosh

Hank is right, the Taylorcraft isn't a sailplane, but may be one of the best powered gliders out there. I've done some one or two turn thermals in mine, scratching out maybe 500' or so on a strong day. It can be fun, and might help to understand when you can keep or even gain some altitude in your Taylorcraft by managing speeds if you need that some day (still with some altitude). Not recommending trying to extend a glide in a power out emergency of course. We all know what can happen trying that! The general rule when flying gliders, at least here in the Midwest is that you'll find the best lift once you've committed for landing and are on downwind. That's the way it seemed when I started anyway.

The cumulus clouds will cycle from flat bottom to a bit ragged as the virga start shredding out of the bottom and that means the lift is falling apart.

Virga, Viagra, eventually we're bound to loose lift I guess... (Oh, for us males I should have said!)