Estate Sale question

[Warren]

Has anyone had experience with no logs or paperwork? There is a BC12D for sale, by some distant relatives of a deceased flyer. Apparently he was 89 when he passed away a few years ago, and since then his wife and members of the same generation have gone. The people that are offering it for sale are not aviation oriented. There are no logbooks, and I'm not even sure that anyone has legal authority to sign the bill of sale for registration. The airplane looks straight and solid, just the cotton starting to fall off. Oil is clean and it has good compression. It has an airworthiness certificate onboard. Looks like the classic airplane in the barn.

[dewhitaker]

Re: Estate Sale question

First thing to do is research the N number on the FAA database. Could also check the NTSB accident data base to see if it has been involved in any accidents. Order the aircraft records, on CD. If you are an AOPA member they can do this for you as well as a title search to make sure there is no liens against it. They charge a small fee, but it could be very well worth it.

[Doc]

Re: Estate Sale question

I purchased an estate sale 7AC last year in TX...it was a long process (5 months) getting the paperwork accomplished...the FAA wanted a Testamentary Statement from the probate court allowing the executor to dispose of the aircraft. The BC12-D that was also available at that time has still not been properly registered to the new owner due to paperwork concerns. The executor of the estate has the power to sell the airplane. It is helpful to call the Aircraft Registration Branch to see how they want to proceed. Good luck. Doc

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Estate Sale question

Get the Feds to put what they want to make it YOURS in writing before you do any work on it. AOPA legal should be able to really help you get to the right people and get the right paperwork. You don't want to put big bucks into a recover and have someone crawl out of the woodwork with a title claim on it.
This could be a REALLY GREAT DEAL, but proceed with caution.
Hank

Might want to search on the engine too. Really bad scene if the prior owner switched engines prior to his final departure and the records show a different engine! Whatever happens, I would consider a major on the engine if there are no records. If nothing is wrong with it, all you will do is put a seal kit in. If something IS wrong with it you could save your family the cost of a funeral.
Do it yourself! I did, and it was EASY! Only bad part was the IA I was working with flew west and I found out he hadn't done ANY of the paper work yet. Great guy and I miss him but I guess I need another seal kit. The second rebuild will be a snap.

[Warren]

Re: Estate Sale question

I think I'll ask them to get the airplane transfered to someone in the family first, That way I know I wouldn't have to work through four different estates to get back to the owner. It sounds like its the great-neice in law selling the plane. If they can't get it transfered, there is no way I could.
I did order the cd from the feds. Spars were replaced on one wing, back in 75 and a gear leg. There was one conveyance assigning an insurance policy to a bank when it belonged to an oil exploration company.
I figured with no logs everything will have to be taken apart and checked.
They are asking 7,000.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Estate Sale question

If you are looking for a nice plane and aren't too hung up on papers it could be a great find. Sounds like it is a complete plane that was actually flown and may not have been modified too much.
If you can get clear title it could even be kind of fun putting the history back together. You never know, the logs could even turn up later. Lack of logs actually helps drop the price. I would sure consider it (if I needed a third Taylorcraft).
Hank

[Warren]

Re: Estate Sale question

estate airplane pictures attached

[Doc]

Re: Estate Sale question

Looks like a nice project that is complete from the few pictures you thumbnailed. To reiterate a point, the Executor for the estate will have the legal authority to dispose of the aircraft...I would avoid multiple transfers to family members...that just delays the registration process by 90 days for each transaction. The FAA told me up front what they wanted me to do when I purchased my 7AC...the Executor for my transaction was 84 years old, and she didn't want to consult (pay) an attorney to get the Testamentary Letter. When she finally did see her attorney, he had the letter finalized that day after one call to the FAA, and I had my clear registration a few weeks later. Good luck on your negotiations! Doc

[Warren]

Re: Estate Sale question

[ATTACH]3918[/ATTACH]

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Estate Sale question

Run search by N number to see who owns it. If it is the deceased person, have the administrator of the estate sign it to you. Make sure it is still registered.

[Warren]

Re: Estate Sale question

I'm not sure if there is an executor, or if the person selling it is a legal heir, so I'm going to pass on the deal. Somebody in the local Ranger Texas area needs to take up on the paper chase. Its listed as Taylor Craft, not "taylorcraft", on craigslist. I don't have any other contact info. Those craigslist emails adresses can disapear at any time.

[Ray36048]

Re: Estate Sale question

From the N number, looks like it is registered to a Troy Taylor dated 04/1991.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Estate Sale question

Warren, I wouldn't be so quick to pass it up. People make things a lot bigger of a deal than they need to. It would take one phone call and perhaps one meeting with the seller to figure out if he/she is the legal heir.

You can write out a quick contract or bill of sale that guarantees the person selling it to you has the legal right to sell it... this is done all the time. Make sure that the person selling it is identifiable, has a local address, driver's license, lives in a house locally, etc. so he cannot disappear. Tell him you will be verifying that he has the right to sell it, and see if he gets all flustered and panicked. Ask him to show you how and why he has the legal right to sell it. If he has all the right papers and answers, then that's one thing, and if he gets indignant and says "do you want it or not?!?!?" then that's another.

There will be some extra paperwork and some extra time spent on this, but all you have to do is adjust the sale price accordingly to make it worth your while.

Remember one important thing... Make a fair comparison... what if you had the opportunity to buy an airplane from the registered legal owner who has 100% unquestionable ownership of it, but the airplane was missing a bunch of parts. How much time/effort/money/paperwork/headache would THAT be? Ever try to find a landing gear for a T-craft? Ever try to find a used cowling?

If that airplane has good LG, cowlings, sheet metal, metal prop, and all the parts are still bolted in place, that represents a HUGE savings in time and money when you restore it. Just make sure you factor that into the deal every bit as much as you factor in the headaches of working with an estate.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Estate Sale question

Bill is right. It's a BIG deal that this plane is all together and not in a bunch of boxes. Do a title search, price your offer to reflect your trouble and if you still want it, buy it. You won't have any real trouble restoring a complete plane with the help you can get here. If the title is clear and the person selling is heir, you got it.
Hank

[Warren]

Re: Estate Sale question

It seems the craigslist email has gone inop. There was no name or number in the ad.