Airspeed In the PATTERN

[Carrieve]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

No one can fly a Tcraft without perfecting the art of the slip. Nothing is better than having your passenger look out of his/her side window at the runway coming straight at them and then all of sudden you straighten it out for the most perfect landing. (And of course no one else is there to see it .)

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I have not been flying the Tcraft that long but I think if you need more than 1000' of runway to stop you are going too fast on final. The rest of the pattern work is what ever you like most. Some pilots just don't like going slow and other times you have to speed up if it is busy.

Dan

[Pearson]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I like to slow down in the pattern enough so that I have to use some throttle to maintain airspeed. I don't like to whiz in at 70 or better and then pull the throttle to idle at 500 feet and glide in.

I have learned that if I get down to pattern altitude about 3 miles out, I can then let the plane slow down to the point where I need about 1400-1500 rpm to maintain 65. When I am abeam the numbers on downwind I reduce to 1200-1300 to initiate a descent. By the time I get on final I am slowed to 60 and can actually ease a little throttle back in to keep those cylinders warm.

I like to cross the end of the runway between 60 & 65 depending on if I am doing a wheel landing or 3 point, or if I have a passenger or not.

The number one thing I try to avoid is throttle to idle in descents. The forward slip is my friend.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I like to slow down in the pattern enough so that I have to use some throttle to maintain airspeed. I don't like to whiz in at 70 or better and then pull the throttle to idle at 500 feet and glide in.

You will think twice about that practice the first time the engine quits on you in the pattern and your short. Take it from someone who has had several emergency landings over the last 20 years. Always practice engine out landing precedure every time you land. There may come a day when you need it.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

What Bill wrought should be added to the Taylorcraft operators handbook!
Amen!
I can only add: Take her high and stall her and remember YOUR Stall speed!
Mine is 48 Mph and have had her as low as 52 but it is to close!
Len

[RobertP]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Just for a bit of variety! with my F22A (which is Tri Gear with flaps!) at my home base which is the highest altitude RAF base in UK and usually fairly windy with no radio comms, I usually join overhead at 2000ft having taken a look at the windsock and decend "deadside" with the carb heat out and then join the circuit at the regulation 700 feet at 80mph slowing to 70mph as I turn base. If I have managed to get the speed back to the white arc late downwind I apply 10 degrees of flap then, or as soon as I can on base followed by 20 degrees of flap slowing to 60-70 mph with 1700 on the rev counter as I turn final.

If it is a very calm day having put the carb heat away once I am satisfied I can reach the runway if the engine stops! I apply 30 degrees of flap (with the flap lever up by my armpit!) otherwise if it is windy I stick with 20 degrees or non at all and aim for 60mph over the fence keeping a bit of power on to stop her wallowing around too much and try to fly her on.

I tend to keep my airspeed up to concentrate on any gusts, which there often are and get the wing down into wind crabbing the approach if necessary. It seems to work for me and is very similar to flying the circuit in a C152 / 172 except that the flaps vibrate a bit and the flap lever is a bit bulky and a bit of a pain! On a good day you can almost fly it all the way down on the overhead trimmer having got her set up to begin with, but I am lucky having three military size runways to choose from mostly on my own , one I could almost land sideways on!

Shortly after I aquired my aircraft I flew to a nearby airfield & when about 10 miles out called them up for landing instructions and being used to flying a C172 I forgot to mention Taylorcraft & said I was a F22A! There was a very sharp intake of breath from the controller as he must of thought I was a Raptor or what ever you call it before I realised & corrected it!

It's interesting to hear how you tail boys do it and the fact that everyone seems to have their own methods and that freedom of choice is alive and well!

[VictorBravo]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I'll catch hell for this from Rob Lees...

The F-22 T-craft I believe has slotted flaps which (although a different design) are likely similar to the British Auster Marks 3 through 5 in their net effect . The Mk V J-1 Auster Autocrat had a placard stall speed of 24 knots using these flaps.

So your Slotted Flap - equipped F-22 would probably have a stall speed in the low 30 mph range. More importantly, the wing's effective "washout" with these flaps gives you a very good margin of controllability and benign stall behavior in gusty conditions.

I humbly suggest that you try some full flap stalls at altitude. You might find that you have a very much slower SAFE approach speed, even in gusts, than 70 mph. As a rough guess, I would think that a power-off approach with full flaps at 55 mph would yield a fairly steep stable glidepath, and 20 mph worth of "airspeed reserve" for you to have in case of gusts. This assumes your ASI is telling you the truth.

[FunkyMonkey]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

To PV. I would be delighted to meet you. I keep my t-craft at Limington and I am a member of EAA Chapter 141. Come join us on the third Thurs. of March at 6:30 PM.

I visited Limington from Rhode Island this past christmas. Nice airport. I had to share the runway with a snowplow

[jim cooper]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

My original instructor, WW2 stearman instructor: " Stay close in to the runway! Don't WANDER out on final! BE ABLE to make the runway without additional power! Remember some HUMAN did the engine, carb, etc. They make mistakes! DON't make a long final, your asking for big trouble. Clear the engine several times during landing, don't super cool the engine! Land in a 3 point, and GET OFF the runway ASAP. There may be some idiot right behind you who doesn't see you!"unquote. Vic later died in a Luscombe Station Wagon, ferrying it for a pal. It had just had an "annual". The engine quit on take off, went into trees, caught fire, (near Westminster, Maryland.) Vic was the master of the slip and taught it well, sometimes nose high. He was certain YOU did it well before he turned you lose as it can save your life in a tight spot. Discouraged wheel landings until pilot had a good bit of time....as it can get away from you and cause adoring fans to laugh at you as you ground loop and screw up a wing! Tuff on the ego and pocketbook! JC

[akndrifter]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I never thought that wheel landing was that hard. Every body should know how to wheel land. Especially if there is a crosswind.

[N74DV]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I find 3 point more squirrely in my Tcraft than wheel landing.

[Marv]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I think you are right. marv

[gfortin]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

PV Are you the one who broke the plow? Now you will have to come by and meet everybody. I was told to make all your landings wheel landings. I am beginning to think they are easier than 3 pointers.

[RobertP]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I'll catch hell for this from Rob Lees...

The F-22 T-craft I believe has slotted flaps which (although a different design) are likely similar to the British Auster Marks 3 through 5 in their net effect . The Mk V J-1 Auster Autocrat had a placard stall speed of 24 knots using these flaps.

So your Slotted Flap - equipped F-22 would probably have a stall speed in the low 30 mph range. More importantly, the wing's effective "washout" with these flaps gives you a very good margin of controllability and benign stall behavior in gusty conditions.

I humbly suggest that you try some full flap stalls at altitude. You might find that you have a very much slower SAFE approach speed, even in gusts, than 70 mph. As a rough guess, I would think that a power-off approach with full flaps at 55 mph would yield a fairly steep stable glidepath, and 20 mph worth of "airspeed reserve" for you to have in case of gusts. This assumes your ASI is telling you the truth.

Bill, Thanks for that, the stall speed on my aircraft is 38 mph with full flap so 55 mph would give me enough over the stall and make for less of a float! will work my way down slowly! I have previously been aiming at 60mph over the fence. I was taught not to use flaps in strong cross winds or strong winds in general unless absolutely necessary so that is what I have been doing with my T/Craft. I guess I am flying it too much like a C152 /172 which I learnt on and as part of a group. It was always impressed on me AIRSPEED, AIRSPEED AIRSPEED when I was learning but equally to much can be equally problematic! all advice is greatfully received as I only have about 20 hrs on my F22A and I was never taught to side slip either as that is not covered in a UK PPL sylabus so I intend to get some instruction in that direction as it seems to be critical with our type of machines.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I only have about 20 hrs on my F22A and I was never taught to side slip either as that is not covered in a UK PPL sylabus so I intend to get some instruction in that direction as it seems to be critical with our type of machines.

Go fly with Rob Lees and Andy Duke and the rest of their group at Leicester. They will steer you towards higher education and greater confidence with your T-craft. I believe they also have an F-22 there, so they will have personal experience with whatever minor differences between the early/late aircraft.

Most importantly, Rob will have access to a hack-saw, with which you can amputate the nosewheel and return the F-22A to its correct F-22 configuration