Airspeed In the PATTERN

[shawn coleman]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I also have an F-22 that I recently put vortex generators on and with 30° of flaps power off 39 or 40 was the best I could do for stall speed , and near as I can tell. Roughly 2 to 3 miles an hour for the 10 and 20° setting give or take personally just in my opinion. The flaps on the F-22 give a little more stability, but don't really seem to make a big difference in landing . So far my F. 19 would out perform it but then again, I only have 50 hours in the 22 so far, so maybe I will improve the one thing I have noticed is the pitch of your propeller makes a big difference in float time, my F. 19 was set up for more of a climb prop and my F. 22 liens a little more towards cruise, I show , about 112 to 114 on the level at 2600, and consequently I get no braking action at idle. Like I did with my F. 19. Has anybody experienced anything similar to this?

[jim cooper]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

RE: fellow in Maine who comes over trees and lands half way down run way: Next time you do this mash rudder pedal to floor, wheel all the way over in opposite direction which will cause nice slip as you pass over trees and you will not go halfway down the runway provided you are landing into the wind. 5-10 feet off the ground, come staright and it should land in a nice 3 pointer provided you flare, finally ,with wheel all the way back. With nose down and controls fully crossed it should come down like a wall safe. JC

[VictorBravo]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Vortex Generators on one of the most docile aircraft ever flown?! WHY?!

Same reason as you use a calculator instead of an abacus

CG Taylor used a "newfangled" NACA airfoil on the T-craft even though there was nothing wrong with the old USA 35B he used on the Cub.

There is nothing wrong with the Taylorcraft, of course, but if you have a desire to get a little better performance out of it, and/or increase low speed safety when flying it near it's low speed limits, then the VG's apparently work well. I can't wait to fly a T-craft with them.

[DanBrown]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I'm getting old! Vortex Generators on one of the most docile aircraft ever flown?! WHY?! JC

So you can impress folks by starting your approach at the downwind end of the runway and land going backwards at the numbers.:ass:

[jim cooper]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I'm getting old! Vortex Generators on one of the most docile aircraft ever flown?! WHY?! The T-Craft and the Aeronca were built as PRIMARY trainers. Easy to fly, VERY forgiving and easy to land and take off. Some years back there was a rush to put spoilers on the wings of Mooneys. A Mooney is a stable, easy to fly aircraft and if flown CORRECTLY (slow it DOWN on base, over the fence at 65-70,) its a pussy cat! If one is instructed correctly and gains confidence I can't imagine spending money on V.G.s for a T-Craft! Only my humble opinion. JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I have heard of MANY Taylorcrafters using this trick, but you should also know there is a replacement right stab on a 41 out there, along with a replacement right door. I don't know about the metal door Taylorcrafts, but the wood ones are NOT designed to be pushed open in flight! Using the door as a speed brake is taking a really big risk.
Hank

And before anyone asks, NO, I never opened the doors on my plane in flight on purpose. If a door ever pops open on it's own, just FLY THE PLANE! It will trail open a couple of inches and won't hurt a thing. DON'T try to close it. Screwing around with an open door in flight will just distract you and could get you killed.

[Tom Garrick]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

More than several years ago I was teaching for the Navy in south Texas. I had taked one of my young students, Lt. John Backs, to enjoy a spring morning flight in my new '75 F-19 I picked up from Ms. Ferris in Alliance. We had the patterm alone end I had intentionally shut the engine down to demonstrate engine out landings. Maybe I was just showing off.

As I came over the fence at 65 slownig to to 55 I immediately noticed that My altitude stopped decreasin. ???

The 5-7 mph wind straight down the runway was being heated up by the hot black runway surface and giving enough lift to keep us aloft. With no go around possible I was feeling pretty stupid. Instead of sideslipping at 10 feet to touchdown I i barked an order to my fellow Marine. "Open your door....NOW"

Worked GREAT. Better speed brakes than the TA4J.

Impressed Tom

[RobertP]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Micro Aerodynamics were at an Airshow in the UK last year and were quoting $695 plus S&H for a complete kit for a Taylorcraft. I still have the handout for the Taylorcraft (all models ) which claims they reduce the stall speed by 5mph. The price did not include getting the parts painted ($100 extra) and sticking them on which seemed a bit fiddlly! The kit comes with 112 VG;s installation tools / drawings / templates and adhesive The handout says they are FAA STC approved & take a day to fit!

[N96337]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Go with Micro.... if you try to get it through on a field approval, most likely they're going to say no....especially when there's an existing STC already. VG's are very misunderstood..they don't make a plane a STOL performer necessarily...they're function is to provide better airflow and control at low speeds and heavy loading...the resulting reduction in stall speed is more of a "byproduct" of that airflow. They're great in my opinion...but too many people think they're a STOL kit and don't realize the truth.
John

[flyguy]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Now what we need is some brave soul to get it done on a 337 so those who want can copy it. I have a really good raport with my AI, but the thought of sticking on 100 of those things is, well, yuk.
DC

[T-Rex]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I have been thinking of VG's also, I'm pretty sure the expensive ones from Micro Aerodynamics are the only certified version. If you are experimental you could install the cheap ones. A thousand bucks is a lot for the kit but I guess thats the price you have to pay to play.

Just went to Landshorter.com and I suppose if you had a couple of previously approved 337's it wouldn't be to hard to get a field approval. I am going to call them and ask if they would supply the data with a kit.

[Robert Peasley]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

I Fly off my grass strip in Otis, Me. its 110x2000' I have to fly over tall pine trees on the South end (16) If I am over 60 mph as I drop down from the trees I find the plane will float close to a third more than normal before it stops. 60 mph on final and slower as the tires touch down sounds about what I do.

[gfortin]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

Good Advice. I did do the search and enjoyed reading all. I think I am convinced that I want vortex Generators. The question is do I buy plastic ones or metal ones? Cheap or expensive?

[flyguy]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

just search "vortex generator" (singular), Pretty good info and discussion. edit: on this forum.
DC

Just googled from info here--- it is Micro Aerodynamics inc.

[gfortin]

Re: Airspeed In the PATTERN

That would be a good thread in itself. To VG or not to VG. What are the pros and cons. I was told that one has to be very careful in turning in the pattern if you are as slow as they allow you to get. Who has the skinny on them?