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Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

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  • Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

    I have an opportunity to replace my wooden propeller after a gusty crosswind landing ended with a nose-over and prop strike.

    (Long story, but no injuries, no property damage, and only minor damage to the cowlings, although both my insurance company and Teledyne Continental say the engine must be torn down for a crankshaft inspection. I was flying from the right seat, but a non-tailwheel pilot was sitting behind the brake pedals. And the brakes grab really well since installing new linings just two months before. At least the nose-over will be cheaper and easier repairs than dented leading edges from running into tall corn, which was the motivation for brake application. VERY glad I installed shoulder harnesses during the restoration -- everyone should have them.)

    Anyway, my ship left the factory with a Sensenich W72CK-44 cruise prop.
    For the last four years, she's had a W72CK-42 standard prop.

    I assumed those were my only approved options, but now I see the W72CK-40 climb prop also listed next to BC12-D in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. The Type Certificate A-696 just says "approved wood" props. Is it written somewhere that the 40-inch pitch climb prop is also approved?

    I'd gladly trade cruise speed for better climb-out performance on high density altitude days during Iowa summers. Anyone have experience, good or bad, with a wood 40 pitch climb prop?

    (And no, my cracked prop ain't for sale. It's already hanging on a certain young pilot's dorm room wall at the University of North Dakota as a memento mori.)
    Attached Files
    Joel Severinghaus
    Des Moines, Iowa
    TF# 657

  • #2
    Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

    Joel, glad the damage is minimal, and that you wrote this note. I have been biting my tongue ever since Tim told me, a couple of weeks ago, about your little problem
    Larry
    "I'm from the FAA and we're not happy, until your not happy."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

      Joel:

      You can use any pitch you want, as long as it meets the static RPM limits for the BC12-D, which are 2070 - 2250 RPM
      John
      New Yoke hub covers
      www.skyportservices.net

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

        Joel, do you need that nice nose bowl back that you sent me a couple of months ago? You might have a more pressing use for it...
        Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

        Bill Berle
        TF#693

        http://www.ezflaphandle.com
        http://www.grantstar.net
        N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
        N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
        N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
        N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

          If you can, put on a 74", it will climb better with a longer prop! I am running a M74ck-0-43 on mine and I climb and cruise perfect for me!..Tim
          N29787
          '41 BC12-65

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

            Joel.......I could just cry seeing that!!!!
            Glad everyone's ok...that's the most important thing.......but damn!!!!!!!!
            John
            I'm so far behind, I think I'm ahead

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

              Joel,

              Please contact me my son is also at UND and they can share stories of what I or should I say he went through last January in our T-craft. It took a three months to get the engine back and the plane flying again

              Joe Shallbetter

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                astjp2,
                The Taylorcraft Type Certificate A-696 says next to "Propeller Limits" for the BC12-D: "Diameter: not over 72 in. not under 70 in." So one can't apparently use a 74 in. diameter prop.

                NY86,
                Where do I find the static rpm limits for a particular pitch prop? The Sensenich Type Certificate P-170 for all their wood props just says "Maximum continuous rpm 2350" for the W72CKs: http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/tcds-p170-r29.pdf
                I should probably just phone Sensenich in Florida for clarification...

                VictorBravo,
                Thanks for the kind offer to return my old nose cowl, but my talented restoration mechanic John Frisbie in Wichita said he'll be able to hammer out the dents in the nose and lower cowls. The carb air box might be beyond repair, however (see attached photo), in which case I might want to buy that old unfiltered airscoop you offered a few years ago, if you still have it. I'll let you know after John tries to repair that one I got from N96337. Luckily, the carb air box absorbed the worst of it, and my recently-overhauled carburetor wasn't damaged, and the intake spider wasn't cracked. So I got that goin' for me.

                N96337,
                I'm trying to look for the silver lining, which is that barring any crankshaft damage, I might just get an engine overhaul out of this (paid for by insurance, I hope), and an opportunity to detail the engine compartment, which the Vintage judges at Oshkosh hinted was something I needed to do to be in the running for silver or gold. The crankcase will need to be stripped and repainted for the prop strike inspection anyway, and I'll have several weeks to clean up the firewall and baffles while the engine is away...

                MNJoe,
                I'm planning to drive my engine over to Central Cylinder Service in Omaha, whom all the mechanics around here recommend for this sort of thing. Central Cylinder said they do about 30 prop strike inspections per year, and that turnaround should be a few weeks. The Teledyne Continental Service Bulletin on prop strikes has rather specific requirements for the inspection:


                Tribe,
                Anyone out there flying behind a 40-pitch wood prop? Climb performance worth the slower cruising speed?
                Attached Files
                Joel Severinghaus
                Des Moines, Iowa
                TF# 657

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                  If you are using Slick magnetos, don't forget that the repair manual calls for an extensive inspection after a prop strike. I suspect other magnetos have the same requirement. At any rate, I had to arm wrestle with an insurance company once in order that they would cover the magnetos on the insurance adjustment.
                  Best Regards,
                  Mark Julicher

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                    Mark,

                    Thanks for the warning.

                    I stubbornly persist in using my ship's original Case magnetos. Central Cylinder said they have the service manual for Case mags, and I have a few spare mags on hand, so I'm not too worried about that. I think their $4200 labor and parts estimate for the prop strike inspection includes the mags.
                    Joel Severinghaus
                    Des Moines, Iowa
                    TF# 657

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                      If you read the TCDS, the 65-8 IS approved for a 74" prop, see note 8. Tim
                      N29787
                      '41 BC12-65

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                        Don't trash the carb air box. It isn't so bad it can't be repaired. I had one that looked much worse. It wasn't that type; it was the one with a filter. Biggest problem was the bushing for the carb heat butterfly valve was toast and had to make a new one. It was probably toast BEFORE it got smashed, but once I found it I couldn't re-use it.
                        Hank

                        ANYTHING can be fixed! You should see the nose bowl I tapped out once. It had cooling cylinder marks pressed into it!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                          Joel:

                          The static limits are for the airframe/engine/prop combo, not for the prop. Any wooden prop certified for 65 horse power and meeting the airframe static limit of 2070 - 2250 RPM is OK. (The limit is found in the airframe TCDS or aircraft specification.)

                          I didn't think it was possible to have a sudden stopage with a wooden prop...
                          John
                          New Yoke hub covers
                          www.skyportservices.net

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                            Tim,

                            Ah yes, I stand corrected. There it is in note 8 under the list of propellers, "Sensenich M74CK, fixed pitch metal." But I'm only considering wooden props, so 72 inches diameter it is.

                            All,

                            I spoke with Charlie Denny at Sensenich Wood Propellers in Florida today, and he also confirmed that the 40-pitch climb prop is approved for BC12-Ds. Even better, he said that for an extra $35 one can special order a prop with a set of their old-fashioned logo thin film decals between the coats of varnish, rather than the usual adhesive stickers on the surface. They have a Sensenich/Cub logo, a Sensenich/Aeronca logo, and the old "SB" logo that says "Sensenich Bros. Lititz PA" rather than the current "Plant City FL." (see photo)

                            But again, anybody flying with a 40-pitch climb prop have opinions to offer?
                            Attached Files
                            Joel Severinghaus
                            Des Moines, Iowa
                            TF# 657

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sensenich W72CK-40 climb prop approved for BC12-Ds?

                              Was your engine running when it went on its nose? You didn't even break the blade off! I'd be tempted to check the runout on the crank and, if it's good, skip the teardown.
                              John
                              New Yoke hub covers
                              www.skyportservices.net

                              Comment

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