tail wheel tie down for hand proping

[alwaysoar]

tailwheel tiedown

Back in the 60's in Dothan, AL., a man walked out of Culpeppers Flying Service hangar and proceeded to prop his Luscomb 8A. I offered to prop it for him (I'd flown Luscombs), or hold his brakes, but he said no thanks, he'd owned this plane since brand new, and he alway set the parking brake and knew what he was doing. Well, he propped it and sure enough, two things happened simultaneously: the engine reved up to about 1800 turns, and the right brake let go. He made a dash for the door and got as far as the left strut before the plane began a wide turn to the left. But due to forces beyond his control, the owner couldn't get to the door. The plane gathered speed and the turns got wider and wider. It was arcing between two rows of planes, a row of J-3 crop dusters and another with a twin Beech. I watched in amazement as centrifugal force just about lifted this pretty hefty guy off his feet, and the tail whipped around like an angry aligator's. Inevitably this had to end, and it did with the Luscomb and owner attached crashed head on into the right nacelle of the twin Beech. Pieces of prop and cowling flew all over the place. I stood and watched this spectacle but in retrospect I should have run like hell. When all the shrapnel had finally landed and the owner had collected his wits, he walked over to me and chewed me out for not grabbing the tail as it went by. It would have killed me of course, and I reminded him that I'd offered to prop it for him. Since then I've seen other really stupid people standing in front of their airplanes propping away with no tie down, relying on parking brakes or a throttle lock, with no idea what a catastrophy awaits them. I ALWAYS tie down my airplane at least in the method I described earlier, and I usually prop from behind with the door open so I can get to the controls. If I'm away from home, I taxi up to a tree or something to wrap the rope around. So I am saying to all those out there, NEVER prop your plane without tieing it down.

[Jim Hartley]

always from behind!

My plane is a good propper, good spark and mixture...and generally the first swing of the prop. I made some mistakes propping from the front many years ago with other aircraft and once it almost cost me my life and and at the very least a limb. One stitch on a knuckle! How about that!!!? Thank God for good reflexes! Nobody props my plane but me and always from behind..."And that's all I got to say about that"!

Dave Wiley has a great video he produced on hand propping and and he stresses safety first and if at all possible always prop from behind. We all know that this is not always possible... Hey Dave! We sure miss talking with you here! Where are Ye? I understand a friend is coming down to see you to get his SES rating this summer...

[Hank Jarrett]

My parking brake is the same way. It will hold but not very well. The heel brakes are MUCH stronger (well OK I can apply LOTS more pressure on the heel brakes). The big problem with the parking brake is getting it to release reliably. I haven't pulled it in several years. I got tired of it never staying in rig. It really isn't worth the trouble.
Hank

[Forrest Barber]

My Dad taught me that the parking brake was to be used after stopping the engine to set the brakes long enough to RUn and get chocks...... sooooo I always have light aluminum chocks with me with a rope between to pull them away after hand propping from behind the prop and ahnds near the controls.... We had this discussion a long time ago . Another trick is to have a set of toggle swiches outside the ship on the right boot cowl to activate the mags from there. Fleet 16B at our palce has a mag switch outside the fuselage for that same purpose.... I do ahve a banner-glider hitch that I can use and the old long rope trick works too. I promised some one I would photo the parking brake set up & never did; my ship does not have one... will do the next one that stops by. OR anybody have one they can photo & post?

[Forrest Barber]

THEN if you have to use the parking brake see that the grooves are sharp and the wire is not thin. I set the brakes with the heels and THEN apply the parking brake holds a lot better that way.

[Guest]

I saw a fellow prop a Cub last year and he tied it to the tiedown chain ring at the rear of the plane using what appeared to be a windup dog leash. It had a handle to hold it by and a crank. Reminded me of one of those crank up tape measures. He looped the leash thru the chain ring and thru the cabin. After starting he got in, unhooked the leash and wound it up with a crank on the side of the thing and taxied off. Very clever I thought. I had made a locking device that unlock from teh cabin. I wish I hadn't bothered and just bought a windup leash! Dave.

[Dan Mahalak]

one rope is all you need

hey all.

No drawings, shackles, posts or widdled stoppers...just simply a knot.

Thats right, one takes a nice long piece of rope, cotton or nylon, just something that will hold a knot. Then, make a loop on one end with a small knot. Take the end with the loop, thread through aircraft and permanent something on earth, which we will call the anchor. after threading through anchor, end up on side of plane you desire. I go for port side myself.

Now that you have your rope threaded through the aircraft and anchor, with a small loop with a small knot holding said loop, take your finger and put it through the loop. Grab the rope at the at the aircraft, but not threaded through, and pull some of that rope through the first loop.. Tighten the slack in the line, and continue for a while. The first knot holds the weight, and the others that you will make will hold one another...Then take the line towards the cabin. After start up, pull your knots apart from inside the plane simply by tugging on the line. THis is what the boat community here in alaska calls a zipper knot. Climbers use this type of knot for their ropes when setting up top ropes. They call it daisy chaining. I call it easy when it comes to aviation. Trust me when I say that first knot, when backed up by 10 more, will hold two tons of weight, as this is what we use on the boat for our fishing nets and cod ends.

hope you understand what I have tried to say. Have a great day of flying and check your knots....har har har.

[mhorowit]

Re: Tail Tiedowns

Found this drawing at the EAA site under Vintage Aircraft division, click on the URL and then select "How not to get run over by your airplane"

http://www.vintageaircraft.org/infor...les/index.html

Has anyone on this forum actually done this? - Mike

[flyguy]

Re: tail wheel tie down for hand proping

All three of my Tcarts have had a T-handle remaining on the left side under the panel. As I remember it was a pull and twist after applying the brakes with your heels. Neve seen one that was hooked up though. Kinda like the mixture control on 65-85 continentals.
Darryl

[flyguy]

Re: tail wheel tie down for hand proping

Forrest,
Oops, didn't read all the posts. I can take a photo of the brake handle and the cable. Don't know if I can post it sucessfully, though. Now that I think about it, one of my carts did have a cable looped thru the heel pedals, if I remember correctly.
Darryl

[NC36454]

Re: parking brake

Len,

FAR's here say much the same-A compotent pilot must be at the controls when hand proping an airplane. I am suprised that your parking brake will only hold the acft at 7-8 hundred RPMs. My heel brakes will hold my 100hp Cont up to 17-18 hundred. It takes a lot of pressure and it wants to creep, but it holds! How is your parking brake set up? I have a small piece of 1/2 4130 tube welded below my dash on the left that an old Taylorcraft man said was for the parking brake but I can't see how it was set up.

Any advise? Thanks Much

Guys,

This one pretty much "chaps my hide"! There is NO FAR that states " A competent pilot must be at the controls when hand propping an airplane". And yes, I've spoken with FAA rep's and they don't consider hand propping an airplane as "reckless and dangerous" so don't use that reg. as an excuse.

As I've said before, if you don't have facts or documentation to support a claim, don't put it out as advice. Ever wonder how many "new" folks have been killed or hurt because they took some of these posts as "gospel"? Folks, please think carefully before you post information!

I'm sure there will be those that will flame the heck out of me but I feel an obligation to keep this stuff out of the "mainstream" of our Taylorcraft society. There are plenty of people out there that will gladly paint our sport as "dangerous" without us helping them along!

Thanks,
Ken
1941 BC12-65
W4SWK

[M Towsley]

Re: tail wheel tie down for hand proping

If you search under Taylorcraft in Ebay you will find a tie-down for hand propping. I purchased the plans for it and it works great. Uses a large retractable dog leash, cable and a couple of modified snap shackles. Cost around $100.00 to build, including labor. The labor was for welding the stainless snap shackles. I purchased two sizes of snap shackles and went with the larger ones. I also made the cables slightly longer than recommended, and it still worked fine. You can safely hand prop utilizing this device and you retract it from the cockpit while you cover the brakes.

[flyguy]

Re: tail wheel tie down for hand proping

Every runaway I know of has been when the engine was first started. I always tie it down and then untie and unchock and get in. No problem. One of the dangerous ones is the people who say that it doesn't clear a flooded engine to turn it over backwards (with the throttle open) so they do it forward (in a hurry without tying it down) and forget something or have a faulty switch and away it goes. Turning it backwards works better (doesn't suck more fuel in) and gives you the edge of only making a really weak spark if the mags are hot for some reason. And the engine really doesn't want to start backwards. Usually it takes a series of mistakes, not just one, to really screw things up. I do as many things safely/correctly as possible to break up the accident chain. Trying to prop an engine from the back really seems like awkward way to get hit by the prop. I also see guys flipping the prop so hard they jerk the top of their body in towards the prop. If it is ready to start all you have to do is pull it gently past the mag coupler kick angle and it will take the prop right out of your hands. If it is not ready to start all the forceful flipping in the world isn't going to start it. Whether you are moving fast or slow doesn't matter, the piston is past TDC (the couplers are timed that way) and that sucker is gone. Then you are nicely balanced on your feet and can move in any direction. I start mine regularly with one hand just walking away to the side. It IS kind of a show off for the guys on the ramp who have to grind on their IO540's for 5 minutes when they are hot to get a start. By the time the second cylinder fires I'm already out by the end of the strut.
Darryl

[paulp]

Re: parking brake

Guys,

This one pretty much "chaps my hide"! There is NO FAR that states " A competent pilot must be at the controls when hand propping an airplane". And yes, I've spoken with FAA rep's and they don't consider hand propping an airplane as "reckless and dangerous" so don't use that reg. as an excuse.

As I've said before, if you don't have facts or documentation to support a claim, don't put it out as advice. Ever wonder how many "new" folks have been killed or hurt because they took some of these posts as "gospel"? Folks, please think carefully before you post information!

I'm sure there will be those that will flame the heck out of me but I feel an obligation to keep this stuff out of the "mainstream" of our Taylorcraft society. There are plenty of people out there that will gladly paint our sport as "dangerous" without us helping them along!

Thanks,
Ken
1941 BC12-65
W4SWK

Ken,

Really sorry about your chapped hide, Scooter!

You are absolutely correct-the FAR's are not specific to hand propping an aircraft. However, if you want documentation I suggest that you go to the FAA web site and look at the Airman Knowledge Test Question bank, in particular, sec H309 question #362. I think that this should satisfy YOUR requirement for "Documentation".(you might also want to look up the answ)

Insofar as hand propping an aircraft-it is dangerous if an individual has not received proper instruction in the various techniques and saftey aspects of this activity. But then again, so is riding a motorcycle, using a double bitted ax or a chain saw and flying a Taylorcraft!!!!! With proper instruction, all of these activities can be enjoyed(well, mabey not using an ax) with little or no risk to the individual or to others.

To address your "reckless" asignation, I think that characterization would have to refer to the actions, or lack thereof, practiced by an individual rather than the activity itself. If you are going to be "reckless" you are going to get bit, irrespective of what you are doing.

As to the rest of your rant, I don't recall anyone condoning nor encouraging any unsafe act. As a matter of fact, my read was that everyone was pretty much interested in saftey and attempted to convey that meaning.

In addition, I have a question. What the hell is the "Mainstream"of our Taylorcraft society?" This is a Taylorcraft forum. Most Taylorcrafts have to be hand propped. Seems like this would be a good place to talk about it, as well as, get some great advice on the various techniques and practices.

And lastly, who gives a crap about what someone else thinks about flying old airplanes. If they don't like it they can kiss my arse in the town square and I'll give them an hour to draw a crowd!

[mhorowit]

Re: parking brake

If they don't like it they can kiss my arse in the town square and I'll give them an hour to draw a crowd!

Darn it Paul, let's standardize.
Are you going to give them 1/2 hr or 1 full hour? - Mike