Is a DC-65 an L2?

[Greg Guy]

If I run the N-number on what looks like an L2 it returns it is currently
a DC-65. Is that normal? Or is this plane an L2 wa-na-b.....greg

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

That would be perfectly normal. Grasshoppers, O-57s, DC65, DCO-65, L2s are all different names for the same basic bird. My plane has occasionally answered to all 5 names. Just like some Catholic girls I used to know. Mary Margret Ruth Ann McAdam - otherwise known as Mimi.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

[n6346m]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

My L2-B has two data plates. One installed by Taylorcraft calling it a DCO 65 and the other installed by the US Army calling it an L2-B. When the army bought L2s,3s,&4s, they did not want to re-invent the wheel by having them be designed to military specifications. They required that the airplanes delivered to the army meet the current CAA certification requirements for civilian airplanes. The army then made military airplanes out of them.

If you closely read the type certificate & data sheet for my L2-B it tells you what to do to make it back into a civilian airplane (like preventing the rear seat from swiveling etc.)

As far as I know all L2s are DCO65s, but not all DCO 65s are L2s. Some DCO65s were delivered to flight schools directly for the CPT (civilian pilot training) program. Those were straight back airplanes without the rear facing observer seat.
If anyone in the tribe has a straight back L2 I would like to hear from them. I understand that they are very rare. Also if someone has a strictly civilian DCO65 I would like to hear from them just to compare notes.

[Chet Peek]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

I'm fllying an original DC-65 NC 36263 S/N 4035. It wa always a civilian airplane, used in CPT, I suspect. Has aluminum spars and ribs, straight back and adjustable seats. Arguably one of the best Taylorcrafts ever made, (except for the Model A, of course.) Will do simple aerobatics without trouble, and cruises at 90. And I could go on.

Chet Peek

[Dick Huish]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

To answer the question requires a lot more time than I have tonight. I will write an explanation soon (maybe tomorrow). Dick

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

Hi Greg , there is alot on faq's on the TAylorcraft web site www.taylorcraft.org tech resources and check faq's...
The tandem Taylorcraft are all D Models .... DC, DF, DL, DCO-65 , etc...

[LLBOYD]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

I have a DC 65 simular to Chet's. Mine is a latter serial number 4132 and was in the CPT program. Mine was built in 1942 and has wood spars and ribs and the straight back.

[barnstmr]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

SEE ATTACHMENT
I think the guys have covered the "fast back" DC 65 and its differences from the "greenhouse" military models pretty well. I am no expert, just learning the D-series over the past year or so. I understand that there may have been a few of the later models converted from greenhouse to fast back by STC or by the old Group 2 approval. Also, some that were TG-6 gliders and later permitted to be modified by FAA became DC)-65, but have fastback I believe. Not certain on that one.

I can add the following information below that I have gleaned from the TC data sheet.

DC-65 (Army L-2): Fastback
Standard equipment items per TCDS A746 are: wood propeller, carburetor air heater, 6.00-6 wheels & tires, tail skid, Muffler p/n D-A624. The L-2 is the same as the DC-65, except a skylight window is installed in the overhead cabin.
Engine: Continental A65-8
Engine Limits: 2300 rpm (65 hp) for all operations.
Airspeed Limits: Level Flight/climb -110 mph, Glide/Dive - 140 mph
Maximum Weight: 1250 lb
Fuel Capacity: 14 gallons total [2 gal. fuselage tank and two 6-gal. wing tanks]

DCO-65 (Army L-2A. L-2B):
Standard equipment items are same as DC-65.
The L-2A is the same as the DC-65, except a rear-view transparent cabin enclosure is installed with associated structural changes, a revised landing gear structure, and revised cockpit arrangement with a full-360-degree swivel rear seat is installed.
The L-2B is the same as the L-2A, except it included radio equipment as standard.
Engine: same as DC-65 for both L-2A and L-2B.
Engine Limits: same as DC-65 for both L-2A and L-2B.
Airspeed Limits: same as DC-65 for both L-2A and L-2B.
Maximum Weight: 1300 lb (50 lb greater than DC-65)
Fuel Capacity: same as DC-65 for both L-2A and L-2B.

DCO-65 (Army L-2M):
Standard equipment items are same as L-2A and L-2B, except steerable tail wheel, brakes, revised rear-view transparent cabin enclosure, revised instrument panel, revised 6-gal. wing tank, enclosed cowl with associated engine installation changes, and wing spoilers installed.
Engine: same as DC-65, L-2A and L-2B.
Engine Limits: same as DC-65, L-2A and L-2B.
Airspeed Limits: same as DC-65, L-2A and L-2B, except max spoiler extend speed 90 mph.
Maximum Weight: 1300 lb (same as L-2A and L-2B)
Fuel Capacity: same as DC-65, L-2A and L-2B

[barnstmr]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

I hear that the fastback (aka "straight" back) ones handle better and cruise faster as well. Maybe Chet or one of the others have flown both types and can confirm this.

[n6346m]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

I'm fllying an original DC-65 NC 36263 S/N 4035. It wa always a civilian airplane, used in CPT, I suspect. Has aluminum spars and ribs, straight back and adjustable seats. Arguably one of the best Taylorcrafts ever made, (except for the Model A, of course.) Will do simple aerobatics without trouble, and cruises at 90. And I could go on.

Chet Peek

Chet,
Nice to hear from you. My main curiosity is with the all aluminum wing in your DC-65. When I had my wings off my L2-B I noticed that they were very heavy and assumed that the aluminum wings would be lighter. What is the empty weight of your airplane? I was considering using aluminum ribs in mine if and when they ever needed rebuilding. If the airfoil is the same as a B model and the ribs fit, I might try to get an old pair of wings just for the ribs and leading and trailing edges and try to get the feds to approve somekind of paperwork. My goal, of course, would be to increase the useful load.
I also wondered what the differnce is between the DC-65 and the DCO-65.
One final question, do you have a full cowling or do your cylinders stick out in the breeze like mine?

[Dick Huish]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

The aluminum spars and ribs were used on approximately the first 100 ships built. The "B" ribs won't fit as the model "D" used aluminum spars. The difference betweem the DC and the DCO ships was the swivel seat, the greenhouse and heavier landing gear. The DCO used 1.5 inch front tubes and the eariler gear used 1.25 tubes. The Shock struts were modified for heavier cords and the travel was longer. The L-2B did not have radios but was setup for them. It had a flattop antenna mounted. All but the L-2M was built with open cowling. Dick

[Dick Huish]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

The rear spars are the same dimension on both the "B" and the "D" the front spar is heavier on the "D". That's why the "B" ribs won't fit. The reason the "D" wing is heavier is because the compression tubes and drag-anti drag assenblies are heavier. I think you'll find that BC-12D ribs are a lot heavier. Dick

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

I have a DC-65, one of the 4 YO-57's, L-2B, and 2 "M"'s in the hanger. The true "D" has many differences structurally then an L-2. Rear seat, baggage compartment, turtle deck structure, trim system, wings, etc. They are also only 1200 gross, where L-2's are 1300 gross or 1325 for the "M". So to answer your question, a DC-65 is NOT an L-2. A DCO-65 IS an L-2. DCO is the civil designation for all civilinized ("N" registered) L-2's.

[barnstmr]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

If you read the TC data sheet, (and see my previous long-winded post....)

The L-2 is the same as the DC-65, except a skylight window is installed in the overhead cabin.

The L-2A is the same as the DC-65, except a rear-view transparent cabin enclosure is installed with associated structural changes, a revised landing gear structure, and revised cockpit arrangement with a full-360-degree swivel rear seat is installed.

The L-2B is the same as the L-2A, except it included radio equipment as standard.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Is a DC-65 an L2?

If you read the TC data sheet, (and see my previous long-winded post....)

The L-2 is the same as the DC-65, except a skylight window is installed in the overhead cabin.

The L-2A is the same as the DC-65, except a rear-view transparent cabin enclosure is installed with associated structural changes, a revised landing gear structure, and revised cockpit arrangement with a full-360-degree swivel rear seat is installed.

The L-2B is the same as the L-2A, except it included radio equipment as standard.

OK, the L-2(no suffix designation) is left over production run "D" models, roughly first 20 had metal wings, all the rest had wood wings.

Although the TC says the "A" is the same with revisions, there is a BUNCH more revisions not listed between the two