W&B problem

[Guest]

Re: W&B problem

DJ, see red text, this is a paste from the TCDS but I lost the formating so you may want to look for that text in the actual TCDS, I suspect your IA knows this. The oil not being counted isn't commonly known, nonetheless it is true


IV - Model BC12-D, 2 PCLM, Approved November 23, 1945; Model BCS-12D, 2 PCSM, Approved February 19, 1946
(Same as Model BC12-65 except for alternate tail surface, revised aileron travel, alternate one piece windshield and other
miscellaneous structural and non-structural changes). (Model BC12-D1 eligible as Model BC12-D when items 601 and 204
and 6 gal. right-hand wing tank are installed).
Engine Continental A-65-8 (see item 114(d) for optional engines)
Fuel 73 min. grade aviation gasoline
Engine Limits For all operations, 2300 r.p.m. (65 hp.)
Propeller Limits Static r.p.m. at full throttle: not over 2250, not under 2070.
No additional tolerance permitted.
Diameter: not over 72 in., not under 70 in.
Airspeed Limits Landplane: Level flight or climb 105 m.p.h.
(True Indicated) Glide or dive 140 m.p.h.
Seaplane: Level flight or climb 95 m.p.h.
Glide or dive 129 m.p.h.
Center of Gravity (C.G. Range) Landplane: (+14.2) to (+20.0)
Seaplane: (+14.2) to (+20.0) with Edo floats (item 205)
(+14.6) to (+20.0) with Heath floats (item 211)
Empty Weight C.G. Range Landplane: (+14.8) to (+17.9)
Seaplane: (+14.8) to (+18.3) with Edo floats (item 205)
(+15.2) to (+18.3) with Heath floats (item 211)
When empty weight C.G. falls within pertinent range, computation of critical fore and aftC.G. positions is unnecessary. Ranges are not valid for non-standard arrangements.
Maximum Weight Landplane: 1200 lb.
Seaplane: 1278 lb.
Number of Seats 2 (+23)
Maximum Baggage Landplane: 50 lb. (+40)
Seaplane: 30 lb. (+40)
Fuel Capacity 18 gal. (12 gal. fuselage tank at (-9) and 6 gal. wing tank at (+24). See NOTE 3.
Oil Capacity 4 qt. (-21)
Control Surface Movements Elevators Up 27o Down 25o
Elevator tab Up 25° Down 30°
Ailerons Up 23° Down 23°
Rudders Right 26o Left 26o
Serial No. Eligible 6402 and up
Required Equipment Landplane: 1, 2, 3, 4, or *8; 104, 108, 202, 203, 210(a), 401
Seaplane: 1, 3, 4 or *8; 104, 108, 205, 401

[dewhitaker]

Re: W&B problem

Hey guys, do a search of the forums and find the link to Rob Lees website for a W&B spreadsheet. Interesting discussion in that thread also.

The main idea is just respect the gross weight limits and go fly! (;f

[Guest]

Re: W&B problem

when you add, remove or change a tail wheel you need to know the arm to the tail wheel's center of gravity and the TCDS gives you that as 193"

when you weigh the airplane you need to know the arm to the point where the weight is being applied which will be at the wheel's center and the corresponds to the axle.

for a tail wheel assembly the cg location of the tail wheel assembly and the axle loaction are not the same but for a main wheel they are since the main wheel is symmetrical

hope that makes sense to you and helps

[N74DV]

Re: W&B problem

ok.. so looks like after doing a loading schedule I'll still be able to carry full fuel in the fuse tank, myself and a 95lb passenger and still be within maximum flying CG.

Would be over gross by about 100lb with a 190lb passenger and be .2" aft of CG. at full fuel in tank.... bummer.

Thanks for the help... I was beginning to fear worse.

[Guest]

Re: W&B problem

DJ,

a few thoughts that might apply IF moving the cg ahead has any value to you

put on a metal prop to add about 11 lbs at the nose

get a lighter tail wheel

sounds like you really don't need this but figured I'd mention it just in case

[N74DV]

Re: W&B problem

I have a McCauley 1B90 metal prop (which was a pain to get certified to use on a Tcraft)

My tailwheel is a Matco full swivel and weighs about 4 ounces more than the Scott that was on there

[crispy critter]

Re: W&B problem

It almost sounds like your fuslage has been poorly spliced or you and your crazy IA need to work on your math,measurments,or something.LOL ,When you get the annual done you will have the most expensive "stock" BC12D on the planet.

[Guest]

Re: W&B problem

glad this worked out sort of quickly and easy for you

I recall in '82 when I went thru this with mine

I sat down on the ground one day and just wanted to crawl into a hole and dissappear I was so discouraged and beaten

just wanted to cry, and a grown man with a family!

[dewhitaker]

Re: W&B problem

DJ,

There are those who claim the aircraft will not fly unless the paperwork is in order, then again, there are those of us who know the T-craft will fly at 100 lbs. over gross, just factor in a little for the density altitude...

Pay the bill and get that airplane away from that anal mechanic and move on to have some fun, we are rooting for ya!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: W&B problem

MEASURE the arms, the tail weigh point was originally the tail SKID , not the tail wheel axle. the arm is different than the TDS OR you can put the rear scale at the 193" point.
I measure all arms on many ships , we do a lot of experimential ships too. Don't subtract , just drain fuel & oil and blow as much dirt out as you can.

[Guest]

Re: W&B problem

MEASURE the arms, the tail weigh point was originally the tail SKID , not the tail wheel axle. the arm is different than the TDS OR you can put the rear scale at the 193" point.
I measure all arms on many ships , we do a lot of experimential ships too. Don't subtract , just drain fuel & oil and blow as much dirt out as you can.

Forrest,

Why?

Subtracting should be fine.

Dave

edit; please answer but after a few minutes I think I know what you are going to say now

[tawadc95]

Re: W&B problem

not a tcraft w&b story but it is w&b.
When my dad was preparing to purchase a tri-pacer in 1974 he went to a guy he worked with to ask about them in detail one day. one of his questions was about gross weights and balance ,his reply was as follows:I put my wife in the plane and load it till the tail drops to the ground and when I get in the plane it is in balance,if I balance it that way I can't overload it.
still amuses me but we never did try it.
he made something of an f-81 out of 2 tripacers and carried friends to mexico on scuba diving trips and landed on the beach with it.

[Robert Lees]

Re: W&B problem

DJ:

On the figures you give, I get your empty (but including oil) weight as 828 lbs at 18.98" (outside the limit).

I would suggest your tailwheel dimension is wrong...dimensions on our fleet here are 198", 198.5", 197" . Your 67 lb is heavy...have you got lots of paint on the tailfeathers?

Here is the spreadsheet I use, just change US Gal to Imperial Gal if referring to fuel.

Rob

[Dennis Keels]

Re: W&B problem

DJ I would run your IA off and go flying. If something happens use your paper work to start the fire. Looks like he wants to get the bill high enough that you'll just give him the airplane.
Big Daddy

[VictorBravo]

Re: W&B problem

My tailwheel is a Matco full swivel

How did this IA from hell not notice the Matco is not TSO'd !!!

Last time I'm gonna suggest this, dude, I'm running out of analogies... tell the IA to step away from the Vaseline , and per FAR's he needs to give you a list of the discrepancies and sign off on HIS part of the annual!