Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Mike,
Great info in your message but I got the feeling you felt some of the negative comments here were directed at Univair. There may be a few who are blasting in general at anyone on the supply side of this but it isn't Univair that is the target of the anger (it certainly shouldn't be). The anger in the threads is from a perception that the Taylorcraft factory used a longeron failure on a poorly maintained seaplane to push through an unnecessary strut inspection.
There HAVE been some damaged struts found so far (not many, but a few, and it doesn't look like they were compromised enough to be a risk for catastrophic failure. But do any of US want to be the first one flying a plane that crosses the line?).
Please DON'T take the negative comments here as attacks on Univair. Many of us are fully aware of the support you guys (and a lot of other companies) have provided, and it IS appreciated. There are a lot of us who will remember the companies who came to help in this mess as opposed to those who only tried to make a buck. Univair is one of the good ones.
Hank

[VictorBravo]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Mike thank you for stepping into the fray and talking straight. It is very refreshing compared to some of the posts and non-posts by other business entities.

I have a 1940 BC-65 s/n 2387. It is not a BC-12D, although the FAA type certificate is the same (696) as a BC-12D.

The aircraft logbooks show two new Univair sealed front struts were installed after a nose-over rebuild. I can see the capital letter U stamped on the upper ends of the strut, which I believe is one of your marks.

I have two questions I would like a clarification on:

1. Are my Univair sealed front struts approved to be installed on this airplane?

2. Are my new Univair sealed struts the same cross section, size, material and wall thickness as the struts my airplane had on it when it was built in the Fall of 1940... or are they bigger/thicker/stronger/wider in any way?

Again thank you for taking the time to participate on this discussion group and providing clarifications on this stuff,

Bill Berle

[UNIVAIR]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I don’t make a habit of going to the various forums or message boards but I’ve been to yours to follow some of the buzz going on about T-Craft lift struts. First of all I’ve been doing this job for 29 years and I’ve seen several ADs and Service Bulletins/Letters issued over the years. The resulting cry is usually the same. Why? There is no need! This is a rip off etc… I’ve been there and heard it all. These things don’t get issued just for fun or to stir up aircraft owners. A lot of times somebody has tumbled from the sky or there is the genuine concern that somebody might. As a Type Certificate owner owner ourselves for the Stinson and Ercoupe series, we understand that a company simply does not have the luxury of turning their back on failed parts, inquiring Feds, grieving widows and lawyers only too happy to get in the middle of all of this.

Univair is not the organization that issued the most recent Airworthiness Directive against the Taylorcraft. However, we are the only ones currently supplying lift struts for the aircraft. And for the record, we are not new to the game. We have been trying to keep you guys flying for the last 60 years.

• There has been some question as to the approval or airworthiness of our Taylorcraft lift struts. Here is the official skinny: We have had an FAA-PMA approval on both front and rear lift struts for the BC12-D/D1 and BCS12-D/D1 since 12/1/1992. These have been sealed and internally oiled since that time. What is sealed? Sealed is a bushing that is welded at the top attach bolt hole to prevent water from getting in (front). The rear has a cap welded down where the adjuster is to prevent water from getting in or moisture weeping in. We then use the same Val oil to slosh the inside of the strut just like we have done on tens of thousands of Piper and Aeronca sealed struts that we have manufactured.

• Are our struts 4130 steel? No. They are mild steel just like the 2000 lb. gross weight PA-20 Pacer and PA-22 Tri-Pacer lift struts. The Piper struts are approved with .035” wall tube, just like the Piper factory struts were. Our Taylorcraft front struts are approved and manufactured with .049” wall fronts and .035” rear struts of the proper original style streamlined cross section.

• We had no foreknowledge of the AD being issued. This AD was issued on an Emergency Basis with no opportunity for public comment. It was as much of a surprise to us as it was to you. When it was issued we applied for an Alternate Means of Compliance (AMOC). We are now including a copy of the AMOC letter with each strut. We were issued our AMOC in a timely fashion (for the FAA) which allows for our struts to be installed on the above aircraft and be a terminating action.

• Why don’t your struts come with yellow tags, or certificates or some sort of gold seal? Because like the other 5,000+ FAA-PMA parts we manufacture they are marked per 14 CFR 45.15. They have an ink stamp with part number, work order number, our address and final inspection stamp ON THE PART. We are now including a copy of the AMOC letter with each strut. Repair Stations issue yellow tags on repair parts. These are not repaired parts. They are new. There is no control by us when the parts are sold through an intermediary and some of this documentation is altered or removed. Also, our invoice serves as proof of purchase of an approved part from an approved source.

• Again, our front and rear Taylorcraft are made from an original Taylorcraft streamlined tube cross section that Univair had to make tooling specifically for. We are not using an alternate cross section.

• What about us F-19 and F-21 guys? These airplanes have a higher gross weight than the BC12 series. Because of that we just can’t add them to our PMA even though the strut is structurally strong enough for these airplanes. We would basically have to go through the PMA process all over again costing us thousands of dollars and taking several months before we could have an approval in hand. Given the relatively small numbers of these airplanes, we unfortunately cannot justify the expense at this time.

I hope this clears up some confusion and misinformation that has been floating around. We also understand this is an expense and purchase you guys would prefer not to make. We get that. Like I said before, I’ve been around helping you folks out for a long time and I know how this gripes a lot of you. Please understand we’re on your side. There is a lot of work and effort that we put in to make these parts available. In that light, our productions runs have gone from typical runs of 5 and 10 struts each to runs of 50 to 100. This does two things. 1.) It means we ARE making deliveries and working hard to do so. 2.) The economies of scale should allow us to look seriously at the cost/pricing of the struts.

Sincerely yours,

Mike Sellers
Marketing and Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft Corporation
Aurora, CO

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

That's a hoot. I was thinking about Piets when I wrote that! The streamlined tube away from the end fitting corrosion (if there even IS any) would be great to use instead of pressed aluminum tube for struts and landing gear on one of my WW-1 designs. Graham Lee did some great stuff on the Nie 11 but with the engines most guys are putting in the sub scale replicas I like the idea of steel gear.
Hank

[barnstmr]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Hank,

I SECOND THAT! I will buy old struts if reasonable price and within reasonable driving distance. They would make excellent Pietenpol struts if need to have the lower ends cut off.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I'll say it again, ANYBODY who is getting new struts and has old (smaller) struts PLEASE do not destroy the old struts! Those of us who LIKE the original stuff WANT your old struts and I, personally, am willing to wait out the insanity and use those old (and still good) struts when the logic returns to the FAA. Even if you have a spliced old strut DO NOT DISTROY IT!!!! When this is all over I expect I will have a tension test set up (the only REAL way to know if your strut is safe, at least on the day you test it) and manufacture jig and hope to weld up new struts for my own use. (When I do, I would certainly be willing to let anyone else use the fixtures to make their own "owner manufactured" struts.) Putting new streamline tube on old (hard to build) end pieces will ease the process and with the end fitting off it would be easy to make them sealed too.
If the rules allow me to make a wholesale repair on pretty much ANY part of the plane I should certainly be allowed to repair the struts with new streamlined tube.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Time will tell , later today I will post e-mail from Lee Budde at Airframes Inc. ; they are legal to sell and install. He sent me this over week-end. Back today full steam. It is great to see America's freedom of speech working.

[matsuthunder200]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I will be getting a set of struts from airframes later on after the rush is over..
I was at his factory today dropping off a set of gear legs. lee is going to rebuild them for me. I have one brand new rear strut well one month old that is on my plane it is a unavair seald strut i will sell it for 450. I just payed around 680 for it. The other rear strut is not seald but it has been exrayd and is fine. The two front struts have both been spliced problbly not worth much... I haft to have a set from air frames They are stronger than the factorys. As far as waight they are two pounds lighter for a set of four. So if you have a 65 hp you coud have 2 lbs more gas..

[tawadc95]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

3D,

I understand what you and most people on here think of the A.D. and the
factory. Just keep the vitriol aimed at the perps and not a fellow member who is doing what he thinks is best for his bird.
There are as many proper answers out there as there are new strut manufacturers (I hope).

[Buell Powell]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Tom,
You are absolutly correct. The original struts on mt 41 by all indications short of X-Ray, NDT, Ultra-sound, are in very good condition. The F19 that I am working on also does not have a strut problem. But rather than take them off, pay to have them shipped and back or take them somewhere, re-install them we are considering just getting it over with and replacing our good struts. I really hate to change the ones on my 41 because I believe they were made from a very high quality steel(I have never seen any rust even where the clamps are attached) I'm not sure the replacements would be as good. I also would rather keep the original size-with the original gross weight I just don't need larger-stronger struts.To me the AD has just created a problem rather than solved one.Not sure what I will do yet but if I replace them it will be because the AD has forced me to choose it a the lesser of 2 bad choices and not because my struts are bad.

[1938BF50]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Tom......Very well said and exactly to the point.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

geez 3D,bad day at work?
so what if TA is pro factory,it's his airplane.

I didn't think I was having a bad day. It wasn't him being pro factory, it was the statement that the factory parts are better.
As an aircraft owner, A&P, with IA I think the AD stinks. The original struts were not of a poor design. The problem is with improper maintenance. Most people are replacing the struts on their airplanes to get rid of the AD, not because they were bad. That is what the factory wanted IMO. The people that are replacing the struts to get rid of the AD are also giving the factory more justification for the AD. The factory can say see these struts were bad because they replaced them, while in fact many were replacing good struts. Less of the struts that were in use are being tested, because they are being replaced without testing.
Now to get this thread back on topic. I wish the factory would give a realistic delivery date and stick to it, instead of making excuses. Tom

[cpirrmann]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

geez 3D,bad day at work?
so what if TA is pro factory,it's his airplane.

Absolutely right. If after all that's been exposed about the current factory, if he still wants to throw his money at them, he is absolutely within his rights.

The rest of us who don't like losing our money, or waiting indefinitely for parts, or receiving parts off someone elses airplane as new, or being victimized by a feckless,complicit government agency and a scheming business owner, will take our business elsewhere.

I had a good experience last time I bought parts from the factory, but being kissed while taking it in the rear doesn't make it feel any better. I whole-heartedly support a thriving factory that can provide us with parts for many years to come. As soon as one comes along with a reputable, trustworthy owner, I'll give them my support.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Composition of 4130 and 1025 are:
4130 = C .28 - .33 Mn .40 - .60 Ni 0 Cr .80 - 1.10 Mo 0.15 - 0.25
1025 = C .22 - .28 Mg .30 - .60 P .04 S 0.050
From Machinery hand book 21 edition.
As 4130 containes crome ( Cr ) it should be more corrosion resistans but is far from corrosion proff.
Len

[tawadc95]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

geez 3D,bad day at work?
so what if TA is pro factory,it's his airplane.