Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

[DannyDot]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I live in Houston, so getting an x-ray might not be too hard for me. I think I would rather do an x-ray than remove fabric and paint. Would an x-ray catch the problem?

But I would hate to do an x-ray if an AD comes out requiring something else.

Danny Deger

[barnstmr]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Why do we continue talking as if the AD is a sure thing?? Last communications (about a month ago) I have had with Andy McAnaul and with Joe Perez at FAA is that there is currently no necessity for an AD on the strut attach fitting. Have there been any comments otherwise by FAA???

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

The final rev on AD & SB comes out real soon if not now! WE have the procedure down to do the visual inspection of the attach fitting sometimes bare metal is not the way to go!
Dave Whitaker has the prototype of the inspection plate, he has drawn it up and it is being considered today. I will post and send to factory soon.
Sorry to have neglected this thread. For the fellow who cannot keep up with Forrest speak, call me sometime on your dime , I have been doing this for 35 years and cannot believe anyone does not know about the "drain" holes. Don't blame the Foundation.

Perhaps a good report each year by the Owner's Club regarding the walk arounds at the Fly-In and other times should have been done, remember the Owners Club started in 1973 , the Foundation in Oct 1998 , The Foundation was not meant to be the safety arm nor the advisor of how to do things. The discussion forumn is totally the results of the Foundation's agreement with Bob Ollerton to form it and host it!

READ IT SOMETIME:::
Disclaimer
The Taylorcraft Foundation and Taylorcraft Owners Club (TF/TOC) does not project or accept any responsibility for participation by any Web site or newsletter reader, member, customer, contributor or groupie at any fly-in functions, forums, or events that may be publicized by newsletter, web site, email, email list, sky writing, newsletter or any other method. All material herein of a technical nature is for reference and historical use only and is not necessarily recommended or approved by the editor of this web site, TF/TOC and its officers and board, unless specifically stated.

It is up to the individual reader, his/her Certified Aircraft Mechanic, Government agency, and the Sky Gods to determine the legality and veracity of anything appearing within TF/TOC Internet media such as web pages, newsletters, email mail lists, and email. This Internet media is produced only as a medium of communications amongst owners/aficionados of Taylorcraft aircraft and history. Make your own decisions, and take responsibility for your own actions.

&copy 2007 Taylorcraft Foundation
Powered by: Adaptive Enterprise Solutions

whew I feel better again. NOW I am going up to the Whitaker ship and finish the inspection procedure. bye Forrest

[barnstmr]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

An airworthiness directive for the strut attach fitting is NOT necessary. INSPECTION OF THE STRUCTURE IS ALREADY REQUIRED AT EACH ANNUAL INSPECTION! Whats next? ...an AD to flush the fuel system if any fuel contamination is suspected?

WHEN DID WE STOP USING COMMON SENSE AND TRAINED MECHANICS' KNOWLEDGE FOR ROUTINE PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE AND INSPECTION?

DOES THE FAA THINK THAT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE DUMBED DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF IDIOTS WHO NEVER LEARNED A THING ABOUT AIRPLANES? OR ARE THOSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADING THE FAA DOWN THIS ROAD?

THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND. COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS!!!!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

That was my exact position in the beginning, that under Part 43 App. D , any good annual or 100 hr would include the attach fittings and in fact is on my Inspection sheet posted here somewhere.
It was felt by the FAA and others that this had been neglected, some mechanics & inspectors ( & owners of course!) were not even aware of the drain holes and lubrication points, plus ships had been improperly covered in that area. I have proposed a more complete service manual then we do not have to spell out each step on this STRUT AD , and probable attach fitting SB ; however we can now see that they may need to be done at the same time. The rotation of the lower bolt when moving the step became an issue.
Life goes on.... yes times may be extended and maybe even another commenting period.

[barnstmr]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

A manual? Now there's an idea for you Harry. Since you hold all of the data and by the way - all of the rights to it - you are accountable to support the continued airworthiness of these airplanes. How about publishing something useful like a MANUAL instead of creating havoc over issues that should be normal maintenance and inspection items?

My service manual was put out by Univair many years ago. I applaud them for exercising due diligence for the time they held the TC in doing so. Times have changed and the old manual from Univair is outdated. The airplanes are older and now have perhaps some different issues. The time is prime for doing your part, Taylorcraft Aviation LLC!

FAA - are you listening? Hold Harry accountable for sound ICA documentation.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I am the fellow who cannot keep up with Forrest speak, and I will call on my own dime. I do not blame the foundation at all as you say; on the contrary, the members of this foundation have been and are immensely knowledgable and helpful for which I am very grateful. Following the post to which you, Forrest, refer, I received a number of PM's of support of my comments. No, I blame you Forrest for your assumptions that we have all been around for 35 years, that you have communicated effectively about all these points of interest, that we have all been able to attend the flyins at Alliance, and that we have been able to interpret and comprehend your sometimes obscure postings. You do work hard on behalf of the membership, but your understanding of the composition of the membership and the membership's basic knowledge is lacking the sufficiency to be able to communicate effectively. And, at times you are VERY sarcastic (and defensive, I might add, re-reading your post with the disclaimer. I don't recall saying I held the Foundation liable--where did that come from?). The strut fitting drain hole to which you referred for the first time in my memory of four years of membership in the Club and the Forum is painted over on my (actually, I just sold it) airplane. Maybe its come up and I've missed it. Thank you for pointing it out. I'll call next week.

Ed@BTV VT
TF 527

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Ed,
We have all been in your place to some extent. The scarred up old timers seem to use an obscure language that is secret to them only. No one expects you to understand like the guys who have been here 35 years (actually I have only been playing with Taylorcrafts for a little over 20 years) but by the same token, the rest of us can’t really be expected to go back to our first year level communications either. We DO want the new guys to feel welcome and I would be glad to help explain anything that is giving you problems if I can. I’m NOT trying to be sarcastic or condescending, but you can’t reasonably blame Forrest because you haven’t been here from the beginning. I haven’t been to Alliance once (yet) and the information when I started was as confusing to me then as I’m sure it is to you now. You WILL start to get it and the postings will become less obscure with time, just be patient. Honest, Forrest isn’t being sarcastic, it’s a problem of perspective. The majority of those reading his posts don’t have any problem and understand fine. Let us help bring you along and you will start thinking we are using straight forward language in no time. Shoot me a PM if something throws you and I’ll be glad to help. Forrest is really NOT picking on you or any of the other new guys.
Hank

[alwaysoar]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Thanks for the conciliatory comments though I do not feel picked on. The success of a participatory membership like this one requires the leadership finding out who the membership is and speaking to them. What set me off in this thread was the comment about famous drainhole, so like dozens of other references that you have to be on the inside to know about. That's not anywhere that I could find in the search, or in Taylorcraft manuals, or anywhere else. I asked about it on this thread, and got a sarcastic comment back that said READ (in caps) the eight pages (I had already read them) that said nothing about the drainhole. That is not the way to bring a newcomer on board this organization. Forrest doesn't care about that. I am done complaining. Thank you for your offer. I'm sure I'll take you up on it.

[N96337]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

It does get a bit overwhelming at times... and they get very sarcastic in my opinion... reason #1 I don't join the foundation. There's so much great information on here, and I feel very fortunate to be able to access it...something that wasn't possible when I first bought my Tcraft, so I just try to ignore it and glean the good. (and there's LOTS of good!!)
John

[flyguy]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I'll throw this in and everyone can take/use/consider it as they wish.

I have owned 3 Taylorcrafts, the earliest dating back to 1980. I have the fabric around my strut fittings cut away and I leave it that way. It has been that way for some time. The plane is hangared and I don't fly it in the rain. I'm careful when I wash it.

I have looked at the fitting pretty carefully and was rather surprised at the thin bands on the top. They look pretty flimsy to me, but they don't break, unless they are grossly neglected as in the case that brought on all this discussion. Having worked with testing/inspecting astronautical and mil-spec materials for some years I am always amazed at the strength of even small pieces of modern steel.

Considering the above I am embarassed to admit that I had no idea that there is, or is supposed to be, a drain hole in the attach fitting.

Guess I should crawl under there and check it out.

DC

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Perhaps some of you should visit Alliance and the airport on Tues., Wed., & Thurs afternoons as I have answered phones and slowly explained so many times the same questions about Taylorcrafts.

I always remind the new guys to Read the Taylorcraft Story by Chet Peek, read the Service Manual by Univair that in fact was a retype of the original mimeographed one that was first done by Taylorcraft for the BC12D way back in 1946; Univair did add many other pages and it is the best one. Essco has one too!
As an educator, Ed from VT, who I had mistaken for Ed from Denver should know that his best students always read their assignments before coming to class. please call me and I will put it on my dime. The factory has had the service manual project on hold for some time. I even have one from Greensboro that goes back a ways.
Everybody should have the re printed parts list from the Feris era. It has a lot of good information. Neither I nor the Foundation can be responsible for owners or mechanics covering over drain holes, all fuselages should be internally corrosion proofed prior to cover, the holes being covered afterward have never really proven to be a problem, in fact I feel the whole fuselage should be sealed and inert gas be put into it AS I HAVE stated many times in the past.
As to the 35 years, that refers to the Taylorcraft Owners Club, they did a newsletter quarterly, the Foundation is relatively new and we did not do a newsletter, till this year , our money goes toward the WebSite, this Forumn and storing the historical data that we have here in Alliance. If you want this to continue then you need to contribute. The holder of the TC 's 696 & 1A9 are the official source for techical data, WE have the other stuff. All members get a letter explaining that this is available to them any time HERE at 2D1 , Alliance, Oh.

Another quick thing, please go to the original web site www.taylorcraft.org check out the mass of information posted there on FAQ (frequently asked questions), photos in the gallery, now the new 337 file, the TC's and Model listings, tech stuff, suppliers, etc..
The TC's are also kept right up to date on the factory site, www.taylorcraft.com ,
WE hope to use our web site more in the future, new newsletter coming ASAP when the AD revision comes out. It will focus on the newsletter new format being done by Steve Krog plus a compilation of the events that happened during this ongoing process on the SL's, SB's & AD's. got to go tow banners today & check out a CGS Hawk.

[flyguy]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

My first Taylorcraft the owner left a nut off a bolt on the elevator horn in the fuselage, his buddy the inspector overlooked it, and I was so green I didn't catch it until after I had flown it several times. I lucked out that time.

Yesterday I took off and the little cover on the pitot stuck down and I had to go around the pattern without airspeed info. (I was doing a soft field t/o and didn't look until too late) It was the first time I hadn't flipped the cover up to check it during preflight as long as I can remember.

Lesson here. With even a little care it isn't the airplane that will kill you, 9,999 times out of 10,000 it is the pilot who does something, nay several things in a row, that gets him.

Friends and acquaintances departed this earthly realm: Loop started from ground level. Tried to turn back to airport from 200 ft. Looped without experience in non-certified aircraft. Flew into thunderstorm because "Had to get back home."

I screw up pretty regularly (fortunately so far in minor ways) but I have never had a Taylorcraft let me down

Airplanes are kinda like the lady said about motocycles, they tend to clean up the gene pool. Once it was lions and alligators.

DC

[DannyDot]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

snip

Considering the above I am embarassed to admit that I had no idea that there is, or is supposed to be, a drain hole in the attach fitting.

Guess I should crawl under there and check it out.

DC

Can someone post a detailed picture or diagram of the attach fitting drain hole? I would like to make sure mine is not covered up.

Also, I just sent my AP out to spend an hour or so looking over the fitting as best he can without doing any disassembly except removing the seat and maybe a little fabric. Based on the pictures I saw of the failed fitting, this inspection should reveal a fitting in the shape or the failed one.

Danny Deger

[Guest]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Can someone post a detailed picture or diagram of the attach fitting drain hole? I would like to make sure mine is not covered up.

Also, I just sent my AP out to spend an hour or so looking over the fitting as best he can without doing any disassembly except removing the seat and maybe a little fabric. Based on the pictures I saw of the failed fitting, this inspection should reveal a fitting in the shape or the failed one.

Danny Deger

Hi Danny,

Forrest did post a picture of it, see page 8 of this thread.

Anyhow you can't hardly see the hole with the gear on.

It is on the bottom of the strut fitting between the 2 lugs of the rear landing gear fitting and slightly inboard of the rear landing gear attach bolt centerline.

Now I just did that from memory so I may be slightly off but look there and see what you find.

Dave