Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

[Robert Lees]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Don't forget that float operations also cause greater stress concentrations on fuselage fittings than land operations....water at 50mph is like concrete, whereas land operations have bungees & tyres to absorb shock.

That's why the original fitting crack AD (back in God-knows-when) was quite sensibly restricted to floatplane operations.

Rob

[N95334]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Oh I forgot the important part. The lower tubing was in the tail at the tail post, no where near the wing struts.

[Guest]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Something isn't right with that failure. I can't from that pic exactly, but it should not have failed in that manner.

It looks to me like there is a weld seam in the fore-aft direction right at the point where the strut engagement slots end.

As if the fitting had been welded back together or a crack was welded up.

Or is it me?

When I look at the new fitting there is no seam there.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

In that broken fitting picture it looks like it might have a coarse threaded bolt holding the strut on.

Or is that my eyes?

Dave

[adrozell]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

This looks like some one should have done some corrosion prevention. I spend most of my time on annual taking care of chipped pant and the such. If this had been done that none of this would be necessary. If people would do a GVI of there ship it would prevent things like this. While it may be cheaper in the short term to over look the little stuff look at all the trouble it has caused.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

In that broken fitting picture it looks like it might have a coarse threaded bolt holding the strut on.

Or is that my eyes?

Dave

It is just the picture blown up so big, that is an AN bolt with an elastic stop nut

Mike

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I and many others agree that he failed strut attach point on the Wiley ship seems to be self evident, however , I have photos with the left wing off for another repair not too long ago that shows the fabric & paint seems to be very good shape, this other mess was under the fabric & paint.
I believe that a common sense inspection of that area will determine the airworthiness of the ship. If anything is suspect then we move on to plan B and X-Ray seems to be emerging as the answer...

[adrozell]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

My next question is how long ago was the fuselage panted. And is there some way to prevent moister buildup in this area. For aircraft that have been recently rebuilt this would seem unnecessary, unless going the NDT rout. But this will be cost prohibitive for most. My ship has new fabric and new epoxy primer cote I hate to take that off. If this becomes repetitive like the strut AD the insulation of an inspection panel might be are best solution. Redoing good fabric will get old quick.

[N96337]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

It looks to me like x-ray could do both the fitting and the strut at the same time, still on the aircraft...look at Bill's pics on the other thread... now THAT would be nice!
JH

[adrozell]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Now if we can just get that approved. But we do not have much time before the NDT portion of the AD must be complied with. Got to love FAA speed, knee jerk reaction then snail speed. I am contemplating new struts just to get rid of the repetitive inspection. I do not like the idea of pulling struts on and off. There is more chance of braking something if you slip up.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I wouldn't be that afraid to remove the struts. There is way too much panic going on here over that issue. It is a minor pain the ass, not a major one. Some of you have spent more time talking about it than it actually takes to do.

Reality check... it's a 60+ year old airplane, taking the struts off to have a good look every once in a while is good. If it were not for the fact that I had taken the wings off recently and looked at the bolts, fittings, etc, I would have had to admit that this strut BS (as bogus as it may turn out to be) would have been a good excuse to have a look in there.

Many many airplanes haven't had the struts off in decades. The spars flex a tiny little bit (they're wood, you know) in flight, and as such they cause a very very small amount of rotation on the lower attach bolts all the time. It's nothing that the bolts can't handle, but after 20 years you might want to at least have the bolt out and verify everything is OK i n there... aside from the corrosion question.

Forrest, please correct me here if I'm barking up the wrong tree... but I do believe that the airplane was DESIGNED for, and assumed by all parties involved, that it would be normal practice to be re-covered every ten years or less because of the original cotton fabric. It is very easy for me to believe that old C. G. had every reason to think these planes would NEVER go 20 or 30 years on the same fabric and not be disassembled.

Bill

[N96337]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I agree Bill, it's a great idea to pull the struts once in a while to look at things really well, and it's not that big of a deal to do...but what I was getting at was maybe a compliance for both issues at one time... not having to pull struts and go one place, then head the fuselage somewhere else... and I do like those x-ray images. Maybe a "strut pull" every 5 years for a good look see including tapping to listen for loose "stuff" and an xray every??? OR even better yet..one xray and then visual inspections.....
What was the cost of the x-ray that you had done? I don't remember reading that...or maybe I just lost it in the cobwebs...
I also agree that the aircraft were most likely never expected to go 20 years with no change in cover.
JH

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

Well, between the strut situation and an engine swap, I figured it was a good time to pull the wings for a winter project. Got the wings hung in the barn and noticed a split/crack about 1/4" deep running from inboard to outboard along the top of the left rear spar and disapearing under the butt rib. OH !@#$%!!! More investigation needed!! Bill's point above about taking a closer look every once in a while is a good one. While you are pulling your struts this year take a few minutes and take off the top wing fairings and have a good look!! Howard

[Robert Lees]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

X-Ray seems to be emerging as the answer

I strongly disagree. The correct adherence to existing standards of good inspection and maintenance is the answer.

Else we'd all be falling out of the sky.

[LLBOYD]

Re: Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

I agree with John about the longer duration between recovering the aircraft. I can remember back in the fifty and sixties we were using grade A or Irish Linen with lots of silver to extend the life of the cover to 6 or 8 years. Now with the rayons and fiberglass the cover material lasts much longer and thus the underlying structure is not exposed as often for inspection. Careful preflight is where some of these abnormalities can be discovered. When I was a lad I was told a story about a couple of pilots sitting in an airport coffee shop in Florida observing an elderly gentleman very meticulously preflighting an old airplane. One commented to the other about the time the elder was taking to simply preflight the airplane. This comment was overheard by a third pilot who simply stated that the time spent on the ground was well worth it if it prevented a problem in the air. And by the way the gentleman doing the preflight is Charles Lindbergh. Make it a habit to do a good through preflight for the life you save my be your own or a loved one's.