A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 12 Dec 2007)

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Hi Mike , I was not refering to you as the A&P, that was another fellow furthur back in the thread . WE must have been posting together & yours beat mine to the corn fed computer out there in Iowa somewhere.

What the heck are we working on Sunday for anyhow. I do not know how you keep your sanity with all these parts you fellows handle out there.
I will remember that tour of Univair last year for the rest of MY life.
Loved the reply about the airknocker, I used to drag a box over to the old Atlas lathe ( actually a Sears 6 " ) to fit the new bushings we used to make for the oleo frames when they wore out. Must send you my drawing of the "three pronged blivet" that we may need your fellows to build for replacement.
I too feel that the A-A815 & the A-A854 can be replaced by your struts, the Airframes struts, or the factory struts as a terminating action; BUT the FAA engineer McAnaul says he needs this other paper work. Time will tell.
Why are you working on Sunday??? I have to to get caught up.:yahoo:

Forrest, Maybe you should quote the post so that we don't have to guess who you are talking about. Every A&P on here is now wondering including me. If you have something to say, say it to the one you intend to say to.

Dave

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Hi Mike , I was not refering to you as the A&P, that was another fellow furthur back in the thread . WE must have been posting together & yours beat mine to the corn fed computer out there in Iowa somewhere.

What the heck are we working on Sunday for anyhow. I do not know how you keep your sanity with all these parts you fellows handle out there.
I will remember that tour of Univair last year for the rest of MY life.
Loved the reply about the airknocker, I used to drag a box over to the old Atlas lathe ( actually a Sears 6 " ) to fit the new bushings we used to make for the oleo frames when they wore out. Must send you my drawing of the "three pronged blivet" that we may need your fellows to build for replacement.
I too feel that the A-A815 & the A-A854 can be replaced by your struts, the Airframes struts, or the factory struts as a terminating action; BUT the FAA engineer McAnaul says he needs this other paper work. Time will tell.
Why are you working on Sunday??? I have to to get caught up.:yahoo:

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

[QUOTE=Forrest Barber;36071]
You are an A&P think about the poor owners who have do idea about " approved data" , "acceptable data" ; Factory produced part; STC'd , PMA'd , repaired, rebuilt, remanufactured and on and on!

Wrong Forrest!
Four years at the Biz school at the University of Colorado at Denver while I pumped Jet A an AvGas at the old Stapleton Airport plus lots and lots of years of post grad work Univair. On my first sales call the customer wanted "an oleo case frame for an old air knocker." I was having one hell of a time trying to figure out what sort of device one would put margarine in for some sort of pneumatically operated door bell thingy.

Nope. I didn't go to any skuel to git so smrt.

Mike Sellers

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

This is the score so far to date:

Taylorcraft, Inc. - MA-A815 & MA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD. They claim to have started delivering struts on 21 Nov, according to their website, www.taylorcraft.com home page. No one has mentioned recieving these struts on this discussion forum.

UNIVAIR - UA-A815 & UA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD only with the AMOC (8 Nov.) and only for Taylorcraft (BC12-D, -D1, BCS12-D, -D1). See top of page 2 of the AMOC. I am hoping the FAA/Univair can expand the scope to all affected aircraft.

Airframes, Inc.- AF-MA-A815 & AF-MA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD. PMA'd replacement parts for MA-A815 & MA-A854. These have been received in the field.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

All Airframes had to do was comply with the regulations. Same with Univair in the beginning and "applicability" to "all models"

You are an A&P think about the poor owners who have do idea about " approved data" , "acceptable data" ; Factory produced part; STC'd , PMA'd , repaired, rebuilt, remanufactured and on and on!
ALL owners should have a very knowledgable A&P & IA or combined one that can guide them on compliance with "conforms to the Type Certificate"
The "replacement" struts by part # may or may not be a "terminating" action for the AD..... confusing , yes, that is the reason for my being on the phones again with all concerned on Tuesday.

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Every T-Craft that came off the assembly line; A model, B model, or F series had mild steel struts. Without exception. In previous postings in these discussions I have stated that during my tenure at Univair I can attest that we sold strut tubing to the T-Craft factory in Alliance.

As far as what is "original": Taylorcraft used to the best of my memory at least 3 different cross sections of strut tube for the front and the rear and there might have been a 4th cross section for the front. What we are currently using is one of the cross sections that Taylorcraft had historically used at one time in the fabrication of their struts. Like T-Craft, we are making the front out of a tube with .049" wall and the rear with a wall thickness of .035".

Back when the AD came out and it said that you HAD to have 4130 struts to comply we knew that this was bunch of crap. The Piper Tri-Pacer has a gross weight of 2000 lbs and all 4 of its struts are .035" mild steel. So, from a structural point of view we knew our humble mild steel struts were plenty strong. However you just can't stick them on your airplane and comply with the AD. Univair sought to obtain an "Alternate Means of Compliance" (AMOC). This is the document that completes the circle to fulfill the terminating action of the AD. I have seen where you guys are confused saying a PMA strut doesn't need an AMOC. It does. I feel sorry that you are all confused by this. To me it is pretty straight forward, but after you've been through this a few thousand times the fog starts to clear away.

I hope this helps take some wrinkles out of some foreheads.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

[jstall]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Univair has had a PMA on our struts for years, long before the AD. Our strut was intended to be a replacement for the original Type Design part and as such is a FAA-PMA approved part under the applicable provisions of FAR Part 21. Our strut is made from mild steel just like Taylorcraft's was made from mild steel. However, the AD requires a 4130 steel strut to provide for terminating action. We at Univair knew that our strut was structurally acceptable to comply with the AD and there are no mystical properties associated with 4130 or a structural need where only a 4130 strut could be used. However, without obtaining an AMOC our struts could not be accepted to terminate the requirements of the AD. Having obtained the AMOC, problem solved.

Also, you don't need a 337 when you install our struts. Do a log book entry, retain the AMOC and our invoice as part of the aircraft's records in case some future owner or IA wants proof of what was installed. FYI - you DO NEED TO DO A 337 WHEN INSTALLING A STC ITEM AS IT IS CONSIDERED A CHANGE FROM THE ORIGINAL TYPE DESIGN DATA.

Mike Sellers
Marketing & Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft

So Mike? you are saying that all Taylorcraft struts were constructed of mild steel? and that yours are identical in material and dimensions?

JS

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Thanks for the reply Mr. Sellers. Univair's UA-A815 and UA-A854 will only qualify as a terminating action for the AD if installed with an AMOC.:beerchug:

Now you're getting it straight! Trust me on this one guys, over the last 29 years I've seen thousands of struts go out the door for Aeroncas, Citabrias, Scouts, Decathlons, Cessna 120, 140,J-3,4,5, PA-11,12,14,16,17,18,19,20,22 & Pawnee, Stinson 108, -1,-2-3. Trust me I've sold struts to just about everybody in the universe. I know struts in my sleep. T-Craft struts aren't new to me. I don't like using my name and expert in the same sentence, but not here. What I have written above is backed up by years and years of answering the same questions. So don't let someone confuse you by telling you anything different when it comes to this documentation business.

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Thanks for the reply Mr. Sellers. Univair's UA-A815 and UA-A854 will only qualify as a terminating action for the AD if installed with an AMOC.:beerchug:

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Howdy out there,

If a company already has a PMA, why would they need an AMOC?

Thanks,

Mike

Univair has had a PMA on our struts for years, long before the AD. Our strut was intended to be a replacement for the original Type Design part and as such is a FAA-PMA approved part under the applicable provisions of FAR Part 21. Our strut is made from mild steel just like Taylorcraft's was made from mild steel. However, the AD requires a 4130 steel strut to provide for terminating action. We at Univair knew that our strut was structurally acceptable to comply with the AD and there are no mystical properties associated with 4130 or a structural need where only a 4130 strut could be used. However, without obtaining an AMOC our struts could not be accepted to terminate the requirements of the AD. Having obtained the AMOC, problem solved.

Also, you don't need a 337 when you install our struts. Do a log book entry, retain the AMOC and our invoice as part of the aircraft's records in case some future owner or IA wants proof of what was installed. FYI - you DO NEED TO DO A 337 WHEN INSTALLING A STC ITEM AS IT IS CONSIDERED A CHANGE FROM THE ORIGINAL TYPE DESIGN DATA.

Mike Sellers
Marketing & Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft

[Howard Wilson]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Early x-mas present from the far north (well AK) arrived today. Came with an STC. Will dig into the paperwork tonight for more info. $2075. delivered to mid MD.

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Thanks for the comments.

My Airframes, Inc. PMA'd struts will be delivered this month.

The daughter will be delivered in Feb.

Take Care

[flyguy]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Considering how much of the applicable FAA documentation reads as if it was written by a high school freshman shop student it is no wonder that there is confusion and 100 different opinions from various and sundry individuals out there, including FAA agents.
Seems to me that some manufacturers use a trickle down method where they do just enough paperwork to make the part usable and the owner and his inspector and perhaps the FSDO have to clean up the mess that is left over. Just an impression that I am starting to get from researching everything applicable to this problem.
DC
EDIT: Talked to Univair yesterday and received very good real/physical information on the struts themselves and the supply situation, but the paperwork discussion still left me with a sense of it all being circuitious mumbo-jumbo.

[astjp2]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

If the part is FAA/PMA for the part number for the terminating action of the AD, It can be installed with a logbook entry. Many companies get an STC because it can be easier to get approved than a PMA. Some companies do STC's for everything, you are still covered, just have to fill out a 337 then do the logbook entry. If they have a PMA, they dont need an AMOC, one of the posts here says that...quoted from that helicopter FAA guy in TX. Tim

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Howdy out there,

If a company already has a PMA, why would they need an AMOC?

Thanks,

Mike