A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 12 Dec 2007)

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 12 Dec 2007)

Alrighty, In reference to Airframes PMA. Did someone approve the PMA with the struts listed as a replacement part? Is there a PMA form/document somewhere with a FAA representative's signature on it that shows the struts as a replacement part, or is it just a case of it being listed on the FAA site incorrectly?

It is not an insignificant question. As an example, my 85 engine was signed off on a 337 without any airframe modifications. The FAA is not interested in correcting that "decision," or changing the paperwork. They have told me so. My engine installation is legal, but the airplane is not really a -85, by definition.

I have had these type of discussions with our local FSDO in the process of writing a Repair Station and QA Manual and I put it here as a matter of interest, perhaps it will, in the end, not have earth-shaking significance for Taylorcraft owners, but I assure you that if an owner was on the other end of the question of a signature, it would be made very clear how important it is to us.
Darryl

Hi Darryl,

I agree it is not an insignificant and I failed to ask it.

I don't know the answer but I do know that I have found other errors in the RGL lib data in the PMA section.

When I asked Dave Swartz if he ever questioned the RGL accuracy he said "only every day".

Univair struts were listed in the RGL as a modification part a few weeks ago but on the Univair catalog I think I saw it as a replacement part, also saw Aeronca parts listed as replacements for Piper part numbers.

So I guess I could be convinced of either answer.

In my opinion the most significant result of all this churn/crap is that most folks will get the correct direction regarding the paper work involved. Besides being generally good, legal and correct it may effect a pre-buy inspection and future sale.

Dave

[flyguy]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 12 Dec 2007)

Alrighty, In reference to Airframes PMA. Did someone approve the PMA with the struts listed as a replacement part? Is there a PMA form/document somewhere with a FAA representative's signature on it that shows the struts as a replacement part, or is it just a case of it being listed on the FAA site incorrectly?

It is not an insignificant question. As an example, my 85 engine was signed off on a 337 without any airframe modifications. The FAA is not interested in correcting that "decision," or changing the paperwork. They have told me so. My engine installation is legal, but the airplane is not really a -85, by definition.

I have had these type of discussions with our local FSDO in the process of writing a Repair Station and QA Manual and I put it here as a matter of interest, perhaps it will, in the end, not have earth-shaking significance for Taylorcraft owners, but I assure you that if an owner was on the other end of the question of a signature, it would be made very clear how important it is to us.
Darryl

[Buell Powell]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated Oct 2007)

Hi Buell,

Aany further word from Wag on their struts? Dave

Dave,
I just talked to Tom O'Neill @Wag Aero. Tom said the problem has been communicatin between the Chicago FAA eng and the S.A. office that approves the AMOC. They did finally talk to each other and Tom is expecting positive results Friday for getting the AMOC but does not want to prommise unti that happens.Possible problem is that Mr. Anaul will be out of office except for 3 days the rest of the month.They have a set made and are going to install next week to check for any possible problems but expect not to have any. Bottom line is that Tom is very cautious and does not want to give information that would lead us to expect the struts to soon even though it seems to me they should be abe to supply them soon.Will post when I hear something unless someone hears first and post it before I hear anything.

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Darryl, no that's not correct,

"Talked with the FSDO today and they agree if a part is a PMA replacement part then all you need is a log entry no STC, but hold on."


Its not a replacement part according to Dave Swartz.

One can have a PMA but that means only that you can make and sell it that does not make it a replacement part, it could be a modification part.

Hope that makes sense.

To keep from getting lost in semantics. Think of a Line.

Think of things in terms of Type Design and Supplemental Type Design. On the Type Design side of the parts line are original and PMA (replacement) parts on the the other side are items that were not part of the original design or modifications. On the Type Design side of the line - No 337. On the STC side of the line 337.

This is how I teach my salesmen.

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

List below is updated as of December 12, 2007 (10 November 2007)

Prices below are for four struts only, 2 front and 2 rear. I kept it to 4 struts only so its a fair compare. Don't compare a price with jury struts included to a price witout them. Just keep it to comparison of the four needed struts.

Shipping is not included but I often hear a shipping cost of $100-$125

********** I only list FAA/PMA sources below **************

1) Univair about $1896 => http://www.univairparts.com/
paperwork required=> "log entry" and copy of Univair AMOC in a/c records
approved for BC12-D/D1 & BCS12-D/D1 aircraft only, other approvals may come later

2) Tayorcraft about $3235 => http://www.taylorcraft.com/zencart/
paperwork required=> "log entry" only
approved for all a/c listed on AD but no struts have yet been delivered
note after 11/15 price is higher

3) Airfames Inc about $1800=>http://www.supercubs.com/taylorcraft_lift_struts.html
paperwork required=> "log entry" and 337 for Airframes Inc STC
approved for use on all A-643, A-696, A-699, A-700, and 1A9 TCDS aircraft
* base strut includes jury strut clamps too

4) Wag Aero about xxxx => coming soon, we think

Thanks go to Mike Burnett for supporting info used here

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated Oct 2007)

Robbie,
I called Wag Aero yesterday and talked to Tom O'Neal. He is supposed to call me Monday after checking on getting the AMOC. When I hear from him I will let you know. Tom said they have hundreds of PMA's and for some reason getting the paperwork from the FAA for the Taylorcraft struts has been much more of a problem than anything else they have done. If you hear anything please let me know. I called Univair and they said it could be months before they get the pre-war's and F19s added to their PMA. I am getting some struts for a Cub and was hopeing to order everything together to save on shipping but I may order my T/craft struts from Alaska Airframes if it looks like it will be a very long time before Wag Aero has the AMOC.

Hi Buell,

Aany further word from Wag on their struts? Dave

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Gents,

Call the fellow in the red text below:


To all Taylorcraft owners:

It seems some folks are uncertain about the AD and the sealed lift struts we produce here at Airframes. inc. Let me try and clarify things. When the AD came out we started getting calls asking us to produce them from our customers. We have been producing sealed lift struts for the PA18 supercubs (which has a similar AD)for the past seven years and have made well over a thousand of them. After conferring with the FAA. it was decided to get an STC to comply with the Taylorcraft AD as this could be accomplished the fastest. The STC states clearly that these struts comply with the requirements of the AD. This is the equivilant of an AMOC letter. Apparently The FAA hasen't gotten around to posting our STC on thier site yet. We make thousands of different FAA-PMA approved parts for many different airplanes and are intimately familiar with part approvals, we hold many STCs and PMAs including one that has an amoc. Our FAA engineer has graciously said that people with questions may contact him. His name is Dave Swartz and his # is 907-271-2671.
Rest assured that not only are our struts the fix for the AD they are the best choice as they are much stronger than both the originals and the competitors.They are also the lightest weight. I chose to charge the same amount for the T-craft struts as we charge for the supercub struts. 1800 per set. I am happy to save the T-craft world all this money as I am a T-craft afficianato myself.
I have about 800 hours in T-crafts.My first airplane was a T-craft which I dearly loved, I have had two more since and still have one, N95090. I taught flying in a 1946 BC12D with no brakes on my side and I met my wife when she was my student in it. Of all the planes I have owned and flown I enjoy the T-craft the most.
If anyone has any other questions, Call us at 907-892-8244 and myself or Levi will be happy to answer them.

Sincerely,

Lee Budde

President, Airframes,inc.

yes! amen, do it, call Dave Swartz

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

"Talked with the FSDO today--all you need is a log entry--

talked with the FAA engineer-- he said that the Airframes Inc struts can only be installed with the STC and that requires a 337...

So bottom line is--you have to do a 337..."

So engineer trumps FSDO? That is interesting.

DC

Darryl, no that's not correct,

"Talked with the FSDO today and they agree if a part is a PMA replacement part then all you need is a log entry no STC, but hold on."


Its not a replacement part according to Dave Swartz.

One can have a PMA but that means only that you can make and sell it that does not make it a replacement part, it could be a modification part.

Hope that makes sense.

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Gents,

Call the fellow in the red text below:


To all Taylorcraft owners:

It seems some folks are uncertain about the AD and the sealed lift struts we produce here at Airframes. inc. Let me try and clarify things. When the AD came out we started getting calls asking us to produce them from our customers. We have been producing sealed lift struts for the PA18 supercubs (which has a similar AD)for the past seven years and have made well over a thousand of them. After conferring with the FAA. it was decided to get an STC to comply with the Taylorcraft AD as this could be accomplished the fastest. The STC states clearly that these struts comply with the requirements of the AD. This is the equivilant of an AMOC letter. Apparently The FAA hasen't gotten around to posting our STC on thier site yet. We make thousands of different FAA-PMA approved parts for many different airplanes and are intimately familiar with part approvals, we hold many STCs and PMAs including one that has an amoc. Our FAA engineer has graciously said that people with questions may contact him. His name is Dave Swartz and his # is 907-271-2671.
Rest assured that not only are our struts the fix for the AD they are the best choice as they are much stronger than both the originals and the competitors.They are also the lightest weight. I chose to charge the same amount for the T-craft struts as we charge for the supercub struts. 1800 per set. I am happy to save the T-craft world all this money as I am a T-craft afficianato myself.
I have about 800 hours in T-crafts.My first airplane was a T-craft which I dearly loved, I have had two more since and still have one, N95090. I taught flying in a 1946 BC12D with no brakes on my side and I met my wife when she was my student in it. Of all the planes I have owned and flown I enjoy the T-craft the most.
If anyone has any other questions, Call us at 907-892-8244 and myself or Levi will be happy to answer them.

Sincerely,

Lee Budde

President, Airframes,inc.

Mike and all, that's exactly who I called and got the info from in my post, Dave

[flyguy]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

"Talked with the FSDO today--all you need is a log entry--

talked with the FAA engineer-- he said that the Airframes Inc struts can only be installed with the STC and that requires a 337...

So bottom line is--you have to do a 337..."

So engineer trumps FSDO? That is interesting.

DC

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Guys I've been down this strut road before. When the Piper strut AD came out you can find where Piper is called out as an approved source and it also called out the various STC holders. There wasn't a mention of Univair. That has been 8 years ago and I still find myself occassionally debating with an owner, A&P or even an IA who because they don't see our name won't accept our struts as approved. When I run out of wind I just send them to Atlanta and let the FAA boys down there tell them the same thing. Our parts are approved!

Now this NPRM has the gate swinging the other way. Why I don't know why. Now I don't necessarily want to carry Airframe Inc's water, but Lee has an STC. It is a little different animal than a PMA. This NPRM hasn't changed a damn thing. If you have purchased his STC's struts, they were approved yesterday they will be approved tomorrow. They will be approved if they are mentioned as being acceptable for terminating action in the AD or not. He has an STC. STC stands for Supplemental Type Certificate. So, it is a Supplement to the Type Design. The Type Design was the STANDARD to which the aircraft was built or in other words what was orginal. The parts Univair are making are made under a Parts Manufacturing Approval which essentially means we are coloring inside the lines of the type design.

This deal could have been just like the Piper strut AD where there wasn't a peep about us. Still, we sold a lot of struts.

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

P.S. I stand on my remarks from earlier postings: No 337 on our struts. Lee's STC'd struts will require a 337.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

I did talk with Lee Budde this afternoon and we discussed a lot of things. He will announce some changes soon. I am still on the phones today, it is all working out. Mike Sellers and I are discussing many things too!
I will put up a thread on the Gilberti Harer STC next week , some changes are happening there too.
Will be calling the factory next and then Andy at the FAA tomorrow .

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Thanks Dave for the clarification with Airframes struts....guess I'll be filing a 337. The answer you got certainly makes sense if they are tied to an STC. All this confusion is just amazing.

Gents,

Call the fellow in the red text below:


To all Taylorcraft owners:

It seems some folks are uncertain about the AD and the sealed lift struts we produce here at Airframes. inc. Let me try and clarify things. When the AD came out we started getting calls asking us to produce them from our customers. We have been producing sealed lift struts for the PA18 supercubs (which has a similar AD)for the past seven years and have made well over a thousand of them. After conferring with the FAA. it was decided to get an STC to comply with the Taylorcraft AD as this could be accomplished the fastest. The STC states clearly that these struts comply with the requirements of the AD. This is the equivilant of an AMOC letter. Apparently The FAA hasen't gotten around to posting our STC on thier site yet. We make thousands of different FAA-PMA approved parts for many different airplanes and are intimately familiar with part approvals, we hold many STCs and PMAs including one that has an amoc. Our FAA engineer has graciously said that people with questions may contact him. His name is Dave Swartz and his # is 907-271-2671.
Rest assured that not only are our struts the fix for the AD they are the best choice as they are much stronger than both the originals and the competitors.They are also the lightest weight. I chose to charge the same amount for the T-craft struts as we charge for the supercub struts. 1800 per set. I am happy to save the T-craft world all this money as I am a T-craft afficianato myself.
I have about 800 hours in T-crafts.My first airplane was a T-craft which I dearly loved, I have had two more since and still have one, N95090. I taught flying in a 1946 BC12D with no brakes on my side and I met my wife when she was my student in it. Of all the planes I have owned and flown I enjoy the T-craft the most.
If anyone has any other questions, Call us at 907-892-8244 and myself or Levi will be happy to answer them.

Sincerely,

Lee Budde

President, Airframes,inc.

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Hmm,

This is lucky thread page 13. How about a few more replies, jokes, etc. to get on to page 14. Our luck may improve there.

[Gary Snell]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Thanks Dave for the clarification with Airframes struts....guess I'll be filing a 337. The answer you got certainly makes sense if they are tied to an STC. All this confusion is just amazing.