A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 12 Dec 2007)

[jstall]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Univair has had a PMA on our struts for years, long before the AD. Our strut was intended to be a replacement for the original Type Design part and as such is a FAA-PMA approved part under the applicable provisions of FAR Part 21. Our strut is made from mild steel just like Taylorcraft's was made from mild steel. However, the AD requires a 4130 steel strut to provide for terminating action. We at Univair knew that our strut was structurally acceptable to comply with the AD and there are no mystical properties associated with 4130 or a structural need where only a 4130 strut could be used. However, without obtaining an AMOC our struts could not be accepted to terminate the requirements of the AD. Having obtained the AMOC, problem solved.

Also, you don't need a 337 when you install our struts. Do a log book entry, retain the AMOC and our invoice as part of the aircraft's records in case some future owner or IA wants proof of what was installed. FYI - you DO NEED TO DO A 337 WHEN INSTALLING A STC ITEM AS IT IS CONSIDERED A CHANGE FROM THE ORIGINAL TYPE DESIGN DATA.

Mike Sellers
Marketing & Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft

So Mike? you are saying that all Taylorcraft struts were constructed of mild steel? and that yours are identical in material and dimensions?

JS

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Every T-Craft that came off the assembly line; A model, B model, or F series had mild steel struts. Without exception. In previous postings in these discussions I have stated that during my tenure at Univair I can attest that we sold strut tubing to the T-Craft factory in Alliance.

As far as what is "original": Taylorcraft used to the best of my memory at least 3 different cross sections of strut tube for the front and the rear and there might have been a 4th cross section for the front. What we are currently using is one of the cross sections that Taylorcraft had historically used at one time in the fabrication of their struts. Like T-Craft, we are making the front out of a tube with .049" wall and the rear with a wall thickness of .035".

Back when the AD came out and it said that you HAD to have 4130 struts to comply we knew that this was bunch of crap. The Piper Tri-Pacer has a gross weight of 2000 lbs and all 4 of its struts are .035" mild steel. So, from a structural point of view we knew our humble mild steel struts were plenty strong. However you just can't stick them on your airplane and comply with the AD. Univair sought to obtain an "Alternate Means of Compliance" (AMOC). This is the document that completes the circle to fulfill the terminating action of the AD. I have seen where you guys are confused saying a PMA strut doesn't need an AMOC. It does. I feel sorry that you are all confused by this. To me it is pretty straight forward, but after you've been through this a few thousand times the fog starts to clear away.

I hope this helps take some wrinkles out of some foreheads.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

All Airframes had to do was comply with the regulations. Same with Univair in the beginning and "applicability" to "all models"

You are an A&P think about the poor owners who have do idea about " approved data" , "acceptable data" ; Factory produced part; STC'd , PMA'd , repaired, rebuilt, remanufactured and on and on!
ALL owners should have a very knowledgable A&P & IA or combined one that can guide them on compliance with "conforms to the Type Certificate"
The "replacement" struts by part # may or may not be a "terminating" action for the AD..... confusing , yes, that is the reason for my being on the phones again with all concerned on Tuesday.

[MJB]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

This is the score so far to date:

Taylorcraft, Inc. - MA-A815 & MA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD. They claim to have started delivering struts on 21 Nov, according to their website, www.taylorcraft.com home page. No one has mentioned recieving these struts on this discussion forum.

UNIVAIR - UA-A815 & UA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD only with the AMOC (8 Nov.) and only for Taylorcraft (BC12-D, -D1, BCS12-D, -D1). See top of page 2 of the AMOC. I am hoping the FAA/Univair can expand the scope to all affected aircraft.

Airframes, Inc.- AF-MA-A815 & AF-MA-A854 - Terminating action for the AD. PMA'd replacement parts for MA-A815 & MA-A854. These have been received in the field.

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

[QUOTE=Forrest Barber;36071]
You are an A&P think about the poor owners who have do idea about " approved data" , "acceptable data" ; Factory produced part; STC'd , PMA'd , repaired, rebuilt, remanufactured and on and on!

Wrong Forrest!
Four years at the Biz school at the University of Colorado at Denver while I pumped Jet A an AvGas at the old Stapleton Airport plus lots and lots of years of post grad work Univair. On my first sales call the customer wanted "an oleo case frame for an old air knocker." I was having one hell of a time trying to figure out what sort of device one would put margarine in for some sort of pneumatically operated door bell thingy.

Nope. I didn't go to any skuel to git so smrt.

Mike Sellers

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Hi Mike , I was not refering to you as the A&P, that was another fellow furthur back in the thread . WE must have been posting together & yours beat mine to the corn fed computer out there in Iowa somewhere.

What the heck are we working on Sunday for anyhow. I do not know how you keep your sanity with all these parts you fellows handle out there.
I will remember that tour of Univair last year for the rest of MY life.
Loved the reply about the airknocker, I used to drag a box over to the old Atlas lathe ( actually a Sears 6 " ) to fit the new bushings we used to make for the oleo frames when they wore out. Must send you my drawing of the "three pronged blivet" that we may need your fellows to build for replacement.
I too feel that the A-A815 & the A-A854 can be replaced by your struts, the Airframes struts, or the factory struts as a terminating action; BUT the FAA engineer McAnaul says he needs this other paper work. Time will tell.
Why are you working on Sunday??? I have to to get caught up.

[Guest]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Hi Mike , I was not refering to you as the A&P, that was another fellow furthur back in the thread . WE must have been posting together & yours beat mine to the corn fed computer out there in Iowa somewhere.

What the heck are we working on Sunday for anyhow. I do not know how you keep your sanity with all these parts you fellows handle out there.
I will remember that tour of Univair last year for the rest of MY life.
Loved the reply about the airknocker, I used to drag a box over to the old Atlas lathe ( actually a Sears 6 " ) to fit the new bushings we used to make for the oleo frames when they wore out. Must send you my drawing of the "three pronged blivet" that we may need your fellows to build for replacement.
I too feel that the A-A815 & the A-A854 can be replaced by your struts, the Airframes struts, or the factory struts as a terminating action; BUT the FAA engineer McAnaul says he needs this other paper work. Time will tell.
Why are you working on Sunday??? I have to to get caught up.

Forrest, Maybe you should quote the post so that we don't have to guess who you are talking about. Every A&P on here is now wondering including me. If you have something to say, say it to the one you intend to say to.

Dave

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Forest,
I got me a new Dell lap top that I just love. I decided to take a break ifrom searching for dead ancestors to see what is going on in the airplane world. It is a nasty habit I developed tagging along with my dad who logged over 20,000 hours before the flight doc said your flying days are over.

I saw where some of you T-Craft guys were at risk of busting your next physical, so I felt for the health and well being of you guys it was time to try and still the waters.

Mike Sellers
Univair

[Guest]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Forrest, Maybe you should quote the post so that we don't have to guess who you are talking about. Every A&P on here is now wondering including me. If you have something to say, say it to the one you intend to say to.

Dave

Forrest,

Apologies, sorry if that was terse. I am having a very pissy day and it seems to be having an effect.

Dave

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

David , terse? Never without guys like you I would never learn a darn thing....somehow today while playing with my Daughters ( Laura) new Toshiba lap top I got onto the forumn and tried to catch up 3 pages of stuff.

Somehow on this thread the last read for me must have been page 6-9 not the last one, somebody had just used a lot of @#$%^&* cuss stuff and I checked his profile and found him to be a A&P ; thus the response way out of order. ( I could not go back and find him, who cares , nobody uses their true name anyhow)
I have now read the complete thread; a bit of confusion I would say. My newsletter will explain from beginning to end this AD & SB stuff; however just as I think I get a handle on it in the newsletter ;m THEN boom another voice is heard out in the wilderness. Pissy days are cured by Wings & Beer and away I go for a while. Love u all!!

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

OK T-Craft guys Mr. Know-It-All is going to have to eat some crow about how much he knows, but with enough ketchup I have become accustomed to the taste. Thanks to Mike Burnett he prompted me to research something this morning that doesn’t really change the world too much but I have been guilty of perpetuating some bogus information so here goes.

Mike wanted to know where it says exactly that the new sealed struts have to be 4130. There isn’t anyplace. There is no requirement the new struts have to be fabricated from 4130 steel. The AD does require one to get MA-A815 and MA-A854 or EQUALVALENT struts to terminate the requirements of the AD. It just so happens that these parts will be made from 4130 steel.

OK then what is the Univair AMOC (Alternate Means of Compliance) all about. Way back in 1992 when we first got our FAA-PMA approval for our Taylorcraft lift struts, our UA-A815 and UA-A854 struts were replacements for original T-Craft parts A-A815 and A-A854. In the FAA world one cannot assume that the original Taylorcraft or Univair parts are the same as the “MA’d” part numbered parts that the new Taylorcraft factory is going to produce.

Some have wondered why a PMA approved part would even need an AMOC. Good question! We had to prove to the FAA that our parts were EQUAVALENT and sufficient to terminate the requirements of AD2007-16-14. Having done so, we received our AMOC. This is what establishes that equivalency. Some have wondered why a PMA approved part would

Mike also stated this: Unfortunately, the AMOC has a stipulation: Univair's can only be used on BC12-D/D1 and BCS12-D/D1 aircraft. This leaves out the A-643, A-699, A-700, 1A9 folks. That is how the AMOC is written, and surely it is a mistake on the FAA’s part to not allow the struts to be used on all the T-crafts.

I will treat this as a separate subject in another posting.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Marketing and Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft Corp.

[UNIVAIR]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

In some previous postings I have addressed this subject, but since folks are coming and going they may not be aware of this situation: Mike Burnett also asked me the following: “Univair's (struts) can only be used on BC12-D/D1 and BCS12-D/D1 aircraft. This leaves out the A-643, A-699, A-700, 1A9 folks. That is how the AMOC is written, and surely it is a mistake on the FAA’s part to not allow the struts to be used on all the T-crafts. “

In short, Mike has pointed out that as our struts are presently approved they have a very narrow approval e.g. BC12-D/D1 and BCS12-D/D1. However, that is of our doing from the time when we got our original PMA in 1992. This does represents the bulk of the T-Craft fleet, but it excludes a bunch of other people. He has another model T-Craft and as such is out in the cold as far as buying an approved strut from us.

I have written a few weeks ago that we are in the process of resolving that. We are requesting the FAA to increase our model applicability on our UA-A815 and UA-A854 struts be approved on the A model T-Craft, the entire B series regardless of engine and the entire F series. We have sent about 200 pages of substantiation to tie all of these airplanes to our struts. What is the status?

All of this paperwork is presently at the Denver Aircraft Certification Office (ACO). Once it is churned through there, the Los Angles Manufacturing Inspection District Office (MIDO) gets their chance to pick it over. Once we get it back from the LA MIDO, then we will have to re-submit it to Mr. McAnaul in Ft. Worth for a revised AMOC.

So welcome to our world of FAA paperwork. When will all of this be done? Once things get out of the Denver ACO, things should move rather quickly. Hopefully by the end of January we should have this thing wrapped up.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Marketing and Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft Corp.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Ah crow is good, I use tabasco on mine, and NOW the new NPRM on the LIFT Struts is on the Federal Register.
I am on my way to the EAA #82 Christmas Party, I have it as a PDF on the OTHER computer. Ii printed it and will read it tonight. Comments later.

However perhaps our computer guru's can find the link. post it and perhaps start a new Thread on :

ROUND #2. Taylorcraft Lift struts: Comments will be accepted until Jan 9, 2008. This clearly addresses the FAA opinion ( rule, decree, whatever)on the Univair struts. The Airframe struts are not mentioned , guess the old AMOC needs to be done or updated.

[waltermrich]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

Forrest,

Apologies, sorry if that was terse. I am having a very pissy day and it seems to be having an effect.

Dave

It was kind of a pissy thing to say, and for those of us in Iowa it was a little offensive. I do not know you from anyone but maybe from now on it would be better to just observe and not comment on this website.

[Guest]

Re: A list of lift strut suppliers (updated 10 Nov 2007)

I pay good money for taxes to the Feds, I am calling the FSDO Monday and let them earn it, and explain!

My PMI is good at figuring this stuff out and has helped in the past when I wanted to do something unusual, maybe he will get this one.

Gonna give it a whirl.

Update - I called but much later than I planned and now waiting for FAA/PMI to return my call. More later I guess. Dave