Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

[astjp2]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

Try the simple punch test / icepick method, that is the tried and trusted, and approved methods for pipers. Tim

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

Guys,
Crash investigations require that information, photos and early analysis NOT be released prior to completion of the investigation and analysis. It prevents early (and often incorrect) information from coming out and causing people to rush out and do dumb things.
Hang loose and trust Forrest. He isn't going to let us fly with dangerous conditions on our planes. He WILL give us the straight skinny as soon as they will let him.
That said, if you have a float plane (or ANY plane where the strut attach fittings on the longerons are covered with fabric "fairings") I would cut the fabric away so the whole strut attach fitting can be seen and poked at. If my plane had the strut attach fittings covered with fabric I would have cut it away before I bought the plane. You DON'T want to HOLD WATER against the steel parts ANYWHERE in one of these old planes. That's why I pull the tail wheel springs every annual for a CAREFUL inspection of the aft lower longerons. I really like the "open tail" covering on some planes and am looking carefully at it for my 45.
Hank
P.S.
Shuttle landed safely!!!
I hope to get into this whole strut mess a little more (if we don't find something in the "post flight")

[N96337]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

[QUOTE=Forrest Barber;32252] I was present for the destruct testing on the F-21 and know what breaks first... QUOTE]

Hank, this has nothing to do with the seaplane crash as far as "evidence" there....it's the same ol' "I know more than you" routine.... it's just like all the posts that were claiming "something big is coming after Oshkosh, and I know what it is, but you don't"....... Well.... to me it sounds like he knew about all this and wouldn't say anything.... this isn't "James Bond" stuff....it's about aircraft safety....
JH

[VictorBravo]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

That said, if you have a float plane (or ANY plane where the strut attach fittings on the longerons are covered with fabric "fairings") I would cut the fabric away so the whole strut attach fitting can be seen and poked at. If my plane had the strut attach fittings covered with fabric I would have cut it away before I bought the plane.

I have an idea which I hope others will comment on and hopefully we can adopt it "officially". A normal fabric covering job by nature does not provide access to fully inspect the lower strut fitting. With or without an AD, with or without a factory SB, it appears that there should be un-restricted access to inspect this VERY important part of the structure. There should be a plastic or fiberglass or aluminum removable section that covers that area, a shape that will not TRAP water, and also allows DRAINAGE of any water or debris that does get in.

Think of it like the little square plates at the tail that allow you to rig the elevator cables. There are plastic pieces that get glues in to the fabric, you cut away the fabric inside the plastic frame, and then hold the cover p[late on with little screws.

Many Taylorcrafts have this plate made out of clear Lexan plastic, which is a REAL GOOD IDEA.

I humbly suggest the same thing at the lower strut attach. A combination aerodynamic "strut fairing" (like Cessnas have), which extends back three or four inches aft and six inches forward onto the rear landing gear attach. It should not touch the longerons or the fitting, so that water will not be trapped. There should be a low spot with a drain hole. It should be vacuformed clear Lexan. Hold it on with a dozen 4-40 stainless screws and Tinnerman speed-nuts, and apply thin weatherstripping around it to seal. Put a layer of 3M "Blenderm" tape around the perimeter and it is guaranteed no water or dirt will get in.

At annual inspection you just remove this part same as all other inspection plates. You will have full access to inspect the fitting and surrounding tubes, poke at it with ice picks, blast it with X-ray, whatever.

I believe this will be WELCOMED by the FAA because it falls totally within the scope and intent of the new "aging aircraft" best practices pamphlet.

What do you guys and gals think?

[cpirrmann]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

Sounds like a good idea to me!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

The airworthiness concern sheet came out this morning, I have been consulting with the factory, the FAA enginer, and old welders around Alliance.

I NEVER kept it a secret, it is on an old thread. Remember when WE started this way back it was for excahnge of information. My one concern is the increased Gross wts over the years. From 1100 to 1750 to who knows what they are carrying; I flew one at 2250......

Under positive load of past 10g's , the strut ends pulled out!! WE have discussed this many times. The front carry through and the rear one were distorted at the same time they did not recover. Under negative load the rear spar is the problem and needs increased depth.

This concern sheet explains the terrible condition of the fuselage strut attach area. If you want to inspect it while your struts are off, DO SO , This has always been my reccomendation. Clean, inspect, maybe drill a hole to see if there is moisture or rust inside.... I have more things to do around here than live on the internet. I am still very pleased that WE have it!

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

I would love something like this. I fully intend to fabricate fairings for all attach points as my goal is to cruise at 100+ mph at something less then WOT. I had a short conversation with Forest on this and it is doable and it will help as will a few other small things on our little bird. I love to get something for nothing and cleaning up intersections is a proven way to gain cruise. If one of you that is experienced in frabricating fairings makes the first one you will have a pattern done and ready for me to copy in a few years when I get to that point. LOL
Larry

[Dano"T"]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

I was thinking the same this as Bill....I was going to inquire about it since we should all be cutting some fabric to inspect this area....we may as well do this modification at that time.....if the FAA says it'sd okay

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

The something big after Osh was announced at OSH. Bruce Bixler has sold the rights to the newsletter and perhaps the owners club to Steve Krog. Steve will be doing the newsletter. Frankly I have been too busy with crash investigations to collect my thoughts on the Foundation. I will contact Steve tomorrow.....

[VictorBravo]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

I was thinking the same this as Bill....I was going to inquire about it since we should all be cutting some fabric to inspect this area....we may as well do this modification at that time.....if the FAA says it'sd okay

Although I'm known far and wide as a smart ass and even a scofflaw in certain counties in Nevada, I would bet my ass that the FAA would buy off on it. I will also bet my ass it is a minor alteration and your IA will allow it on his signature.

The reason is the little "best practices" pamphlet, which more or less is the FAA agreeing that we might have to cut some extra holes and access panels (within common sense) to more adequately have a look see at 50, 60 and 70 year old structures.

Since the fabric is non-structural on our airplanes, and since we routinely put round access panels in fabric without any howling from the FAA, I think it would be very hard for any FAA engineer to call it into question. Especially considering the current concerns about that area.

I made larger inspection access hatches on my T-crat at the lower wing surface next to the strut attach. My IA loves it, it allows him to really see inside, get his hands or a wrench onto something, etc. Photos of this are in the "gallery" but they're wood and are not appropriate for the lower fuselage. We need clear plastic there IMHO.

[stormman]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

Hank said
"I really like the "open tail" covering on some planes and am looking carefully at it for my 45.
Hank
P.S."
I never seen that. Is it legal?
Anyone have any pictures? better description?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Forrest..... Strut Question Tf#733

I don't have a picture, but the one I saw just had the last triangle on each side at the back of the fuselage left uncovered with the fabric wrapped around the last diagonal tube. They called it the "Taylorcraft Terrible Triangle". By leaving it open, and the last bottom section, likewise left open, it was MUCH easier to inspect the tail area longerons.
I'm still a little worried about small critters getting in (snakes in the airplane), but a removable thin sheet aluminum skin on the area could give the best of both worlds. Easy to open up to inspect, and covered to keep it secure back there.
I have lots of time for the 45 to figure details. The 41 is stock and that is the one to get flying right now.
Hank