Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

For what its worth and with Bill's post in mind here is the Taylorcraft Service Bulletin on struts.

I see no mention in it of x-ray being a satisfactory method although I am not taking that position only pointing out what I noticed.

http://www.taylorcraft.com/zencart/Taylorcraft%20SB2007-001A.pdf

[alwaysoar]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

The report of the accident has not appeared in the NTSB synopsis; is this because it was "EXP"?

[Winston L.]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I don't like the way the Taylorcraft strut SB is written because it locks you into only one method of inspection. If an A.D. is issued it will be a pain, I'm affraid, to comply in a different way than is described in the SB.

They should have written it like Pipers strut SB where the method of inspection is left up to the mechanic.

I tried to contact the engineering department at Taylorcraft but the e-mail did not go through ,so it wasn't a good address.

I don't think that Taylorcraft even has an engineering dept. they didn't when I was there.

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

BTW- appears that the appendices of the Taylorcraft strut service bulletin are merely various paragraphs of AC43.13-1B chapter 5 pasted into a new doc.

[O.Taylor]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

The report of the accident has not appeared in the NTSB synopsis; is this because it was "EXP"?

there seems to be other "experimental" plane listed: like Gary Becks P-51

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

GEE whiz I wonder who lit the fire under the FAA.
I do agree that WE should have a leg up on the proper inspection . How many of you replied to the FAA request for comments?? More on that tomorrow.

[crispy critter]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

How can I help Forrest?

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I am sure the EXP was not a factor, there are just many questions unanswered.
I will forward more when I get it, anybody that hears something let me know here or at [email protected] I am going nite nite , c u all tomorrow, it has been a big day.

[crispy critter]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Let's look at this a little bit deeper for a moment....We are talking about a pre-war bird that is made out of lighter tubing then the post-war. Also it is on a float plane that takes much more abuse then normal and already has an AD for that area. Then the question of,"how long ago was the airplane last recovered?" Another thing to look at it that this airplane was used for extensive training(from what I've gathered from the guys who knew the airplane and Dave),it was also the left side fitting that also supports the entry step on the side where most of the wear and tear come from by getting in and out of the airplane(this being a float plane that could be opposite because you normally hand prop a float plane from the right side behind the prop). Also figure in the fact that most of the prop wash can put extra strain on the left side of the airplane over time. Now,none of these by thereself should be enough to cause this tragity but when you put them all together over many years on a bird that probably took a good beating quite often then we might see something of what could be an issue.
We must face the fact that most of these birds are 60+ years old and we are going to have to start thinking about metal fatigue and how to best prepare them for long term preservation in the future. We don't want to park them but we sure don't want them to kill us or worse...we don't want them killing our kids! So we really need to start paying more attention to areas that are generally not of any consern. We also need to pay more attention to those birds that are generally put through more rugged abuse then normal. We all know the struts have been an issue for sometime now and with good reason. I don't personally think the area around the strut fitting on the fuslage is a problem area but apparently for Dave it was. If one looks at this area and thinks for a spell it does make sense to put more effort into inspecting it as good as possible because both struts,the landing gear leg,the step,plus the cross tube for the bungees all come together in this exact location....thats a lot to support for 66 years! Let's keep an eye on them and try not to give the FAA any more reasons to slap us with shit we can prevent.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I totally agree we need better inspections of critical areas.
However, lets see what this ship really was at time of failure. The steps were removed, the tail is two hinge; "D" if you will , 85 hp, no ventral fin, probably reason for the D tail.
Many things wil be looked into.... I have noted these critical areas many times in the past 35 years and pointed them out on walk arounds at the fly-ins, but we still find ships showing up with un airworthy items. I attended the Type Club meeting with the FAA on Thurs at Air Venture regarding " aging aircraft" over in the Old museum , I will report on that under another thread ; many changes coming; some good ( Congress voted to force the release of data from TC holders that have refused to do so in the past) some bad, clamp down on "field approvals".

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

If that float equipped Taylorcraft lived on floats, I can suspect it could have had a failure in the fuselage structure where the struts attach since it is now the low point of the tube structure. I have never seen one fail in that area before, but I am not in an area where there is alot, if any, float equipped airplanes.

X-ray should be an alternative inspection. I don't think x-ray can be brought to the aircraft like eddy current inspection which can be done on the airplane, so it will cost more even if it is available in your area. Univair sealed struts should be exempt as well, not just the factory struts.

Speaking of proper inspections, how about someone coming up with proper inspection requirements so mechanics not familiar with Taylorcrafts or rag-wing aircraft will know how to inspect these old airplanes and possibly prevent some of these accidents from happening in the future? I know there is an original inspection manual that is out there, but it does not cover continued airworthiness like corrosion and other things that take affect on a 60 year old airplane.

[dennispip]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

When I first looked at these postings I had the same concerns as others. The picture of this plane sitting at its mooring made me think of how much condensation occurs to my boat every evening and night. All that runs right down the struts and onto that area where they attach. It sits there until it evaporates. Being on the water has to make it significantly worse than land based, although planes tied out and to an extent even hangered if not in a heated building, get condensation, particularly in the winter. I have seen it dripping off my hangered plane many a morning in the winter months. The float planes have to be subject to more stress in landings and takeoffs and daily living as well.

So those who enjoy the pleasure of floats, please be especially vigilant to be safe. All owners need to be focused on being certain their planes are safe in this aging fleet. I think having the TC community involved in determining what the inspection should be is great, but it needs to be a good and trustworthy method. Cost is of concern, but consider the payment for structural failure. Dying while doing what we enjoy is still dying and having someone in the other seat makes it worse yet. The cost of peace of mind and decreased risk is worth whatever it ends up being.

[barnstmr]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Not to mention - There's a wood piece in just aft of the lift strut attach fitting that is sure to absorb and retain moisture in the area.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I hope that sometime in the last 60 years or so, that wooden piece has been restored or replaced, and varnished to inhibit moisture absorbtion/retention.

[Falcon10]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

If my memory serves, I remember on my cub that there was a easy, less expensive inspection process for the struts. I think you removed the paint on the lower 18 inches. Then as I remember I used a automatic center punch in a grid pattern probing for weak and or rusted area? If this inspection is acceptable on cub struts, would the FAA accept this as an approved method?
any thoughts?
Jim.