Wide fuselage

[astjp2]

Has anyone tried to widen the fuselage (4") like the cub guys are doing? Maybe even adding a little height? I am thinking of picking up a wreck and using it for a LSA experimental. I would love a little extra room. Any thoughts out there? Thanks Tim

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wide fuselage

You could effectively widen the airplane by 4" using larger wooden secondary structure around the door opening and blending that shape back to the tail with standoffs under the stringers. That would be a lot easier than a cutting/welding operation.

As far as cheating on height, you could possibly change over to a spring aluminum type landing gear (talk to my friend Robbie Grove, Grove Aircraft San Diego), then you'd be able to remove the bungee attach/forward seat structure, and put Cessna type seats lower and further back in the fuselage to gain more headroom and legroom. You would have to reposition the rear seat tube as well, but that would be minor compared to chopping up the whole fuselage.

These ideas MIGHT allow you to create better visibility, more room, more comfort, and not have to rip a whole fuselage apart. However, cutting out the bungee attach and forward seat structure will make it so you couldn't easily return the structure to a stock config., and ALSO it will remove some of the crashworthiness. Think about it, in a bad crash a boulder or tree stump has to destroy a lot of steel tube before it gets to your butt. Removing any of those tubes makes it easier for the boulder.

A Grove aluminum landing gear is something that I have often thought about for an STC or stealth modification.

[Vasey fan]

Re: Wide fuselage

Bill, do you know if anyone has actually removed the fwd/bungee attach clusters? Headroom is at a premium for me with my clip project, and I have eyeballed that area with similar thoughts. I'd just hate to be the wind dummy.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wide fuselage

I have no idea if anyone has done it, it just seemed like a place where you could do some surgery and lower the seat.

Bill

[Len Petterson]

Re: Wide fuselage

Two aircraft was built in Ontario with widend fuselages but with original seat design.
LOT more comfertable. (;f
The rear of the doors a 1.5 " out from the original.
Remove the little stay at the door, and replace it another under the seat. area.
For more gross weight use the Harar STC.
Len

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Wide fuselage

This fits in with the idea we had about building a new fuselage jig. Designed right a new jig could be used to repair fuselages and be used to build a 4" wider fuselage design with some of the other "improvements" we have been talking about for years (little more head room, skylight, solid baggage compartment, brake options). The thing is when you change the design there are all sorts of problems that crop up to bite you. If you widen the fuselage you are spreading the wings wider. Any clearance problems for hangars? My first hangar BARELY fit my wings! When you lengthen the wings you also increase the bending moment. There needs to be some analysis. I suspect the moment at the fuselage side is the same, but the loads on the fuselage tubes WILL change and they need to be accounted for. This ISN'T a job for a bunch of cut-n-welders to just jump in to. If we were going to try and find a way to build jigs to support us into the future and maybe even go back into limited production some day it could be worth the analysis and design effort. Be VERY careful making modifications to the fuselage without some analysis.
Don't get me wrong, these are things I WANT to see done, I just don't want a "blood analysis" using one of our guys blood.
Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Wide fuselage

I was going to leave the wing attach fittings alone, I was going to only widen the back of the door 2 inches on each side about half way up where that tube goes across, but I just looked at an F21 today and did not have the cross tube for the back of the seat, I am going to try and get pics and post them here. I am also working on getting the materials together for a Jig then all I will need is a straight airframe to build it around. I would also like to do the Prewar tail feathers, the rudder is larger and they have 3 hinges.....Its only time and money....Tim

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Wide fuselage

OR build the Model 14 she was higher and wider. Had the fuselage here till about five years ago. Used square tubing up front, a fellow bought her taht lives down by Circleville and says she is about to fly again.
All this was discussed at the big think tank in Lock Haven in 1991. Not done due to budget restraints.... DO IT! make an ELSA taht is comfortable. I do have that F-22 fuselage here that I would sell, it is wider and has big door opening.... [email protected]