Seven Headliner Questions

[mulwyk]

I got a very old, ratty headliner with my project. It appears to have fit the plane at one time and I'm going to use it as a pattern to make a new one. But, of course, many questions have come up in the process of planning this part of the project. Any Taylorcrafters with information (or opinions even), please chime in, I could use your input.

The old headliner is made of a tan colored wool material. The local fabric store has an apparently identical wool material for $16 a yard. So my first question: is there anything special about the wool headliner material sold by Spruce and Airtex and others...or can I simply buy local?

The old headliner has a total of 6 zippered openings, I would like to simplify: (Opening 1) a large, aft "T" shaped opening made of 3 zippers. This opening allows access to the aileron turnbuckles. (Opening 2) A mystery opening in the center of the headliner, 9 inches long, roughly above the center of the seat. Question Two: this mystery opening appears to have no function, can I safely eliminate it? (Openings 3 and 4) Right and Left sides. These openings appear to allow access to the fuel tank valves. Question Three: I only have a wing tank on the right side...do I need a zipper opening on the left? or if I move the tank valve to under-the-panel do I need any openings at all? and (Opening 5 and 6) right and left front cornors of the headliner, inspection holes for the aileron pulleys in those locations. Question Four: do all headliners have these openings? If the headliner is attached to the right and left "V" tubes, then the pulleys are accessable from the windshield side, and a zipper is not needed?

The old headliner was suspended by 3 (3?) hoops made of 1/4" ID copper tube. The copper tube was enclosed in pockets and then safety wired to the wood stringers above the cabin area. Questions Five and Six: copper tube hoops, is that the right stuff? what are others using? and how are your hoops attached? are they just hanging there?

And finally, the old headliner seems to have been attached to the airplane with staples and glue (contact cement?) What is the correct adhesive? Are stapes supposed to be used in addition to glue?

[dedrekon]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

1. I believe it has to meet certain fire resistance codes
2-7. I don't know, but they aren't copper tubes, just metal formers and the headliner is mostly just glued in place.

I took the (ratty, hanging down) headliner out of N43457 many years ago and bought a new headliner from Airtex. I still have it....so I shot a pic real quick for you. It looks pretty much the same to me. Hope that helps a little!

Vincent

[astjp2]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

There was not many requirements under CAR3/4 for fire and smoke, not like under FAR 23, so you can use the same style of material as originally certified with. I would probably just buy the presewn one and install it, its WAY cheaper in the long run. Good luck Tim

[mulwyk]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

Yes, thanks Vincent, that does help.

So that's what they're supposed to look like. I like that gray color. I'd thought the yellowish color of my old headliner was normal, but it may just be the effects of age, dirt, and too much sunlight exposure. (My face looks that color some mornings in the mirror)

Any idea what that center zipper is for?

[Chet Peek]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

The copper tubes are not origional. The three stays should be 1/8 inch fairly stiff steel wire slipped into pockets sewn on the top side of the headliner, these seated in holes drilled in the top of the door frame, if I remember correctly. It's been about 10 yeas since I did mine. I actually bought the steel stays from Dorothy Ferris in about 1980, she still had them!

Chet Peek

[Pearson]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

Bob,

Maybe the zipper in the middle is to grap the trim cables when your trim crank isn't working????

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

I just happen to have the wires out of my 41 and can trace them on a piece of paper for you. They are NOT tubes but stiff steel wire. If you could get some stainless it would probably help. Any moisture in the headliner seems to rust the wires like an iron gate and really stains the headliner. I am having a new headliner made for the 41 by a local upholsterer (why the wires are out). If you are interested I can see if he will give a break to sew up two.
Send me your email and mailing address in a PM and I will work out mailing you the tracing of the wires.
Hank

[t-crafter]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

Bob on my last restoration I made my headliner from scrach which is a hell of a lot of work! I used tan wool and doubeld it up for warmth and sprayed it with a certified fire retardent. I had only the 1 T zipper behind your head. I stapled it around the hat shelf and door frame, and used wind lace from antique cars to cover the staples. 3m glue where you attach to metal. The bows are steel 1/8 rods epoxy primed and painted. hope this helps Carlton

[mulwyk]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

Wow! What a website this is. You can get more information here in a few hours that you could get outa books in a lifetime. Thanks, all.

Tim: You're right, of course, it'd be much easier (maybe even cheaper!) to simply buy a headliner. But you could say that same thing about the whole aircraft restoration game. It's always more economical to buy a nice flying T-Craft than to restore a basket case. But we do it anyway. You see, I'm retired and the airplane thing is a hobby for me...I actually enjoy it. I figure an hour spent doing something you love is an hour added onto the end of your life. The geezers reading this will understand.

Chet: Thanks for the info. I'll replace those copper tubes with 1/8 steel. I can imagine that would also give the old girl a little spring action up there. Nice.

Richard: always one smart a** in the group.

Hank: I sent you a PM

Carlton: Some great ideas. I'll probably go with the single "T" opening aft like you have. I never thought of doubling the wool, but I'll bet that would really add to the insulation factor and also deaden the noise a bit. I'm not sure if the fire retardant is needed...like Tim says, wool is original and I remember a pair of wool army pants I had in my welding job youth. They would get little holes burned in them but never really burn or melt. Wool seems to be natures fire retardant. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

If I can't get stainless rods, I'll epoxy coat some steel ones as you suggest.

A couple questions: what is wind lace? I'm not familiar with that term. Also, what's this 3M glue...is it something I can get at the hardware store?

[Dick Smith]

Re: 3M adhesive

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Super-77/Super77/SprayAdhesive/Product-Information/

[lfries]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

Just a note. I've always wished I had a zipper by the trim handle.
My trim position indicator is not working and if there was a zipper
I might consider repairing it. For now full aft and three cranks forward
is good for takeoff.

[FredK]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

8: How many planes are flying without headliners?
9: Is headliner removal owner maintance?
10: Who enters what where,to be legal?

Just climbed into a T-craft for my first time.
Looking at all these cables and pullys...
has had me wondering about headliners. FK

[DanBrown]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

My 1040 T-Craft came (to me) without a headliner. I like the idea of seeing as much of the control wires as possible, and the scanty clothing makes the old gal seem sexier. Might also give a pound or two more useful load.

[perryv1]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

I cant imagine trying to Make a headliner. You must have more time than I do.I put an Airtex one in my plane a few years ago,after never having one in the airplane(ace model),without having anything to go on that seemed the logical thing to do. I used heavy coat hangers for bows. looks great
PV

[Carl E. Carson]

Re: Seven Headliner Questions

I doing a restoration on my '40, BC-65, and I bought my headliner from Airtex, $217.00. If you attempt to make your own be sure to sew in an enclosed tube type channel for the wire bows to slip into. Mine is done where the seams join as the headliner is sewn together by sections. Airtex offers a variety of fabrics, too.

Carl