What were they thinking?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: What were they thinking?

The longer you take to get back in, the harder it will be. When I wrecked a Bellanca several years back, I was on a cross country to pick up another airplane with a friend. I crawled right in the other plane and flew it to our next stop. While the wreck is a tragedy, all the coverage drives the stake a little deeper into the heart of GA.

Mike

[murphy]

Re: What were they thinking?

Go Flying
Ragwing nut is right the longer you wait the harder it can be, I had an engine out on take off at 200 feet from a grass strip surrounded by tall pines hit the first one at about 50 foot up. The rest of that flight was short but confirmed my love of steal framed airplanes (Stinson 108-2) inverted free fall out of pine trees really bites. A few weeks in the hospital, a few months at home, and my first flight was back to that strip and I sure was nervous. After we landed we were setting around visiting when a low wing Beach crashed right in front of us slamming into the trees, the two guys walked away but it sure scared the hell out of me I didn't think we would ever get off that strip that day.
A month after that last crash I bought a 48 Cessna 140, still limping from a reconstucted hip those first flights were scary and not so much fun but it got better as the months went on. Five years later and I now keep my Taylorcraft at the strip I crashed the Stinson it's close to home, grass, and cheeper than the local paved 4000' footer.
I don't fly the same as I did before that day, low and slow always reminds me of engine failures so I fly alittle higher and always try to keep a field under me.
Go flying it will pass.
Mike
F21A
Mobile, Al.

[3Dreaming]

Re: What were they thinking?

They were flying in '67 Mooney that seemed to be in pretty good shape.

Jack D.

Before you posted this I would have guessed it was a Mooney. I flown one a little, but have not stalled one. I remember my dad talking about doing a flight review in one, and being very suprised when it stalled and spun. They tried it more than once with the same results. I know of at least one other flight review that ended in a stall spin accident. Tom

[Doc]

Re: What were they thinking?

The two major evolutionary events that separate us from the great apes are: 1). Opposable thumbs that allow fine grip/finger control, and 2). A larger brain that allows us to take limited risks (such as flying) and to make decisions that seem inexplicable to others after the fact - it does seem odd that this aircraft intersected a building...but it was also odd that two pilots wandered into the Washington DC airspace a while back to the chagrin of the rest of us. It will (unfortunately) be interestng to see what the risk adverse FAA does to protect "buildings" in major metropolitan areas. Doc

[lawheelock]

Re: What were they thinking?

The mayor of New York, Blumburg, is a pilot and a Mooney owner! This from the Mooney tech website. And the data is available on Landings.com.
Explains why he gave a knowledgable interview.
I own a Mooney, Stinson 108 as well as the T-craft I am trying to get back in the air. I owned a BC12D back in the 60s and flew it more than 500 hours.
My T-craft flew a lot like a slower Mooney. Both will eat up the whole available runway if the approach is a little too fast. The T-craft stalled clean without any pre-stall vibration. Spins from a safe altitude are a pleasure. The Mooney is a lot like it but at a higher speed and it is an even cleaner plane and requires a little more altitude to recover from a stall. No spins allowed in a Mooney. The Mooney and the Stinson have almost identical stalling speeds, but the Stinson is dirty and recovers quicker.
Any plane will bite you. I had a friend killed in a Mooney that stalled at low altitude while on a biennial. The instructor was probably a 200 hr wonder and had never been in a Mooney. My theory is that the instructor pulled power to simulate an engine out while the reviewee was under the hood, low, on an ADF approach.
I won't take a biennial from anyone without lots of experience in whatever plane I am flying. I also preface the ride with NO LOW Level power pulls. A good instructor can clearly evaluate a pilot under simulated power loss conditions conducted at a safe altitude!
Larry Wheelock

[Ron Coleman]

Re: What were they thinking?

I think that it was in the fall of 1964 that I decided to sell my much loved and thoroughly flown Taylorcraft Ace. I had been suckered into a black hole of a storm just 18 minutes from home that lasted long enough that I wound up after dark with no lights trying to find a no lights grass field and a wild crosswind. I thought that I needed a plane with lights, so N5481M had to go.
The buyers showed up late one Sunday in a Tri-Pacer with the story that they wanted to start a flying school and that they wanted to test fly my baby before they would commit. The, instructor to be, brushed off my attempt at a cockit review with a "I know what the hell I'm doing, I can fly this thing." So we went rattling down the 1600' strip and he yanked us off a couple of times before we were ready to fly. We easily cleared the wires at the end of the strip nose high at about 55 mph and at about 50' he suddenly stomped hard on the right rudder, and we shuttered into a flat right turn.
In a reflex I reached up and jammed the wheel forward and got some flying speed. I thought for sure we were going over on our back. My move make the buyer mad and he said some things. I told him that unlike his Piper product the Taylorcraft preferred some coordination at which time he reminded me with a lot of authority that he knew what he was doing, he was a good pilot and I should butt out. The landing wasn't too bad.
By the time the paper work and money dealings were finished it was near11:00 P.M. and pitch black outside. The buyers were ready to head home to Kalamazoo Via Fort Wayne. I asked the buyer about flying at this time of night with no lights and for such a long distance. No problem he said, he had a flashlight good for about 15 minutes, and the lawnmower battery that I had in the plane was good for another 10 minutes and besides he was going to follow the Tri-Pacer which had lights. Neither plane had a radio. He told me, I should go down the runway to the hanger, which butted up against the runway, and shine my flashlight on the end of the hanger so that he could see it so as not to hit it.
The Tri-Pacer took off into the dark and turned to follow the railroad track west. Then the T-Craft passed over my head and the lights faded out. The battery had gone dead.

A couple weeks ago I looked up old accident reports and found:
BC12D1 N5841M 8/30/1966 Rochester, Ill. Fatal(1).

Ron C
N96995

[Jim Herpst]

Re: What were they thinking?

Yes we can all learn from this(THESE) I am sure........ Lets just do it on the NY flight when all the facts are in ..."there but for the grace of God I go" It could be any of us who do what we so love doing....... Lets just make sure it is not YOU

[Forrest Barber]

Re: What were they thinking?

Ron's story is unbelievable, but true I am sure..... WOW the NY accident is something, my immediate reaction was suicide!
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I have been counting parts and putting things into place today then walked Kelli-Belle, taking Patty out for Dinner tonight , celebrating 42 years of blissfull marriage.
bye Forrest

[flylo]

Re: What were they thinking?

42 Years! She must be a saint. Congrats Patty & Forrest!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: What were they thinking?

SHE is to put up with the likes of me! We had a beautiful dinner out with friends ( both of them) & family at the former Jeanette's in downtown Alliance now called Anthony's. THIS was THE spot to hit in Alliance in 1945-mid 50's. Many Taylorcraft stories there! well I am off to fly hope I make it in the wind!

[crispy critter]

Re: What were they thinking?

Congrats on the anniversery Forrest.....and give Patty my sympathy.lol

[cpirrmann]

Re: What were they thinking?

I'm still shook about how quick this can happen and how you may not be in control of a situation.

Jack D.

Kind of like when someone has a head-on collision on the highwa, crash on a motorccle, hit b bus walking across the street, falling in the bathtub an drowning, etc. IT can happen at an time for an reason. We must live our lives to the fullest we can, for we never know when .... we just tr to minimize the risks. We never can completel.

Sorr, ke isn't working.

[mhorowit]

Re: What were they thinking?

Sorr, ke isn't working.

why?

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: What were they thinking?

If I'm hearing the speculation right, and since I've been gone several days... I'm unsure of my sources... the specuative experts could be just some talk-radio know-nothing, but...

It appears now that one of the pilots was attempting a tight turn, a 180 back out to NYC harbor, which is more open than the particular piece of the East River they were flying over at the time of the crash. If that is the case, may I propose the "wing-over". Again, it's a straight pull up to near stall, bleeding off all but the last few mph's of air-speed, then kick the rudder hard, dip the wing and you've turned the plane around in a few hundred feet of altititude and maybe 100 ft of width.

Never have I thought this life-saving manuever had an application in downtown Manhattan, apparently this is one situation that I've never considered. I've always thought and practiced "Wing-Overs" for getting out of a box-canyon. New York certainly has the basic configuration of a box canyon. And, although I've never used it in an emergency, I practice it at least once a year, and keep it just incase.

With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[48fordnut]

Re: What were they thinking?

ed, I always thought that was a hammer head? i could be wrong. jim.