News from the Factory III

[Ragwing nut]

Re: News from the Factory III

Mike, I have been studying this for a long time now....I know it won't be easy,cheap,or fast. Somebody has to start somewhere. I just want to see if anything can be had from the factory or if there's other tooling out there somewhere? I have talked to some friends with the FAA and I know what's involved to be able to make certified parts to sell on the open market. Applications,backgrounds checks,permitts,FAA inspections over a timely period,PMA's,etc,etc,etc. The list goes on and on.

I know lots of FAA people too, but real world experience took 7 years to get the Production Certificate, which I still can't sign my own 8130's until I get my DMIR (desiginated manufacturing inspection representative) which will happen later this year. And to get that, you have to have 5 years in a quailty control position.

Gary Green (used to own Jumping Branch Exhuast) built many exhaust systems under the owner produced parts regs, but to do that, legally the parts can't be available though another source. By the reg, if the part is being manufactured by the factory or under a PMA or TSO, that part can;t be made under 21.303. If you or anyone is dead set on making parts, make sure you align yourself with a current PMA holder, or become real friendly with a DER. Otherwise, good luck on getting anything done directly through the FAA when it takes 6 months or longer to get 337's approved today.

Mike

[crispy critter]

Re: News from the Factory III

Ed,
You just made it page 14 and this is the third thread on this subject.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: News from the Factory III

Well if this is any help... most threads get a few hundred reads and last just a few days. At the moment, this thread, just this thread about factory news -- Has over 14,000 viewings and has been renewed through 13 ongoing pages since Sept. '06. I think that says something about our collective interest in this topic.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

[crispy critter]

Re: News from the Factory III

Mike, I have been studying this for a long time now....I know it won't be easy,cheap,or fast. Somebody has to start somewhere. I just want to see if anything can be had from the factory or if there's other tooling out there somewhere? I have talked to some friends with the FAA and I know what's involved to be able to make certified parts to sell on the open market. Applications,backgrounds checks,permitts,FAA inspections over a timely period,PMA's,etc,etc,etc. The list goes on and on.

[tim]

Re: News from the Factory III

ya i think an l-2 would be cool to build next but other then that just wondering how many people on here would want to get to gether and make parts ?? i know i for one would im 22 and can go any where so building parts for 5 years is just fine with me oh and the other thing we get it back open we can have factory flyins again

now if its one thing i say again and again is to make em as cheap as u can like bills idea who needs a fully loaded aircraft when you can have just as much fun with a plane jane stock aircraft like i do lol low and slow or well low and fast is fun to ah ya if only you could make em like they did in the 30s and 40s price but the other part to it is the engine and we all know how high a cost they can be so if you could find so way around that then i think one could do very well

[Ragwing nut]

Re: News from the Factory III

I know the restoration and procurement guy for Pima. We have already bought an L-2 and 2 UC-78 projects from them in the past. No the TC's are not freebies, museum needs money to run. I have been after the L-2 TC's for several years with no movement on them.

Anybody crazy enough to build aircraft in this volitile market is no brighter than Harry or has waaaay too much money in his bank account. I have said it before, it will cost millions to put any Taylorcraft back into production and a minimum of 5 years unless you outsource production to a company already producing a similar product.

Even to build parts, legally, you are talking about a lot of time and money. You can't just get a bunch of folks together, go make parts, and call them owner produced. There are regulations that have to be followed. It is easy to do with one part, but when you are talking 25 parts, than that is a business and opens a new can of worms.

Mike

[crispy critter]

Re: News from the Factory III

Does anyone have a copy of the plans and blueprints for the L2?

[VictorBravo]

Re: News from the Factory III

Somebody mentioned sticks in a Taylorcraft. There are several different types of stick mods available for the Taylorcraft, from the funky British Auster system to Swick and other "normal" control sticks, to the little L-shaped nonsense that stuck out of the hole in the panel.

I will be putting a set of Auster sticks in my airplane this summer. I had an Auster and it was kinda cool, but the sticks feel a little different because they're mounted to the A-arm under the panel. But they look almost like regular sticks and fly almost like regular sticks.

Side by side has advantages and disadvantages as always. But I don't think that alone stops sales as much as the sticks would.

The visibility problems on a Taylorcraft can be 90% fixed with existing STC's or the latest factory style skylights and windows. Sitting in the back of a stock J-3 has it's own visibility problems, by the way. Sitting in the front of a J-3 has significantly MORE comfort problems than sitting in a Taylorcraft.

A Taylorcraft may never have the name recognition as the Cub, but there should be at least a reasonable market for them if someone figured out the way to make them at a competitive price to the new Cubs. If Legend Cub sold 90 airplanes and T-craft could have sold 50, T-craft would still be viable.

The key idea is that it would have to be less expensive. Meeting the Light Sport rules means certified to an ASTM spec not FAR 23. Money can be saved that way. $50 thousand for a basic model with no frills... no fancy interior stuff, an inexpensive GPS/COM radio, ASI, ALT, compass and have a nice day. Don't even HAVE more than once price on the marketing sheets.

The story of the "unsinkable T-craft" and how many times it defied all efforts to be shelved should be one of the themes of the marketing campaign. People would buy one to become part of that "checkered history" of the little airplane that could. the fact that it is a better performing plane, goes further and faster on the same engine than any of its contemporaries, more comfortable, etc is put in parenthesis as an aside (letting people think that they found a really cool plane with a heart and soul, with "sleeper" performance).

[M Towsley]

Re: News from the Factory III

Ed,

I remember the type certificate for the L-2 being available awhile back, I did not know Pima got it. Is that correct??? I know a gentleman who was active with the Pima museum, not sure if he is now. What exactly does Pima have regarding the L-2, I haven't been there for many years. Now that you know what an L-2 is, (no rubbing shoulders with your neighbor, not having to get a muscle spasm just to look out of the window and an honest-to-god control stick), those are great ideas you have to ponder. The Cub is popular because of marketing, tandem seating and you can fold the doors up/down, whoo hoo. With the L-2 you can have tandem seating, open both side windows (and hang your elbows out like a car), go faster and its a warbird. I have never been a big fan of yellow, anyway.

[alwaysoar]

Re: News from the Factory III

Well, start with struts. Build your own jigs, strut jigs should be easy. Your friends in the FAA can give you the PMA, and I'll buy the first set.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: News from the Factory III

Dick;
It'll be the Summer of '09. I can't wait! Thanks and please keep in touch. With regards; ED OBRIEN

[Dick Smith]

Re: News from the Factory III

Ed, when you get to Alaska, be sure and fly on down to the Kenai area...the Alaska Tribe will try to make things interesting for you. I'm not far from you right now, am over in Monte Vista, CO visiting my son and his family. We just drove a motorhome down from Ak...was minus 27 deg. F the night we stayed at Burwash Landing. Will be back in Ak in about 3 weeks. Moved the skiplane off the lake ice, since the ice will probably be going out by the time we get back.
I've had my bride in Ak for 38 years...she wants a little bit of sunshine now. So we're planning on leaving our rig down here and use it in the winter now and then. Dick

[Winston L.]

Re: News from the Factory III

Harry doesn't own the tc's for the BF or BL models either.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: News from the Factory III

Kev;
Start slow with parts. Work your way up the food chain. The L2 certificates are practically freebees, right now. Next time you're around Tucson -- stop in the museum and see what they've got. BUT, eventually make enough from the parts business to then build the replacement plane that we'd love to see. Or, at least I'd love to see. I'll bet if someone spent 10 years building parts and collecting fire-sale things from Harry, (remember the L2 isn't part of Harry's domain - so it won't be tied up in court) and wipe the other dribs and drabs from here and there as you can -- then, you'd have boot strapped yourself into one hell of a fine business. I'd think about it -- actually, you can tell from this post -- I HAVE thought about it -- but there are others who will need to do this dream. My dream is retirement and flying to Alaska in N57504.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[crispy critter]

Re: News from the Factory III

Marketing is my thing. Since I started at Beech, then did Lear, and Cessna in my early career and recently have worked on some of the micro-jet deals... I'm at least conversant with aircraft marketing. So weigh this one...

I think if somebody could build the L2 (and remember I just bought L2-A) Anyway, build the L2 with an 0-200, 24 gallons, LSA for $5-10 less than a Legend Cub -- Then you'd have the world beating down your door. According to Forrest, Pima !@#$!!@#$!!@#$!!@#$!y Air-museum has the certificates and drawings. Just an idea from someone who's not putting any money where my mouth is (with the exception of the L2 I bought)... I think somebody could make some money on that idea.

So you're welcome to my free speculation! After-all, what are friends for?
With regards; ED OBRIEN

Ed,you are just still hanging up there on Cloud 9 with your new toy so that idea doesn't count right now.LOL ,Just Kidding. That is a good idea but your talking millions in start up money to do something like that.....I just want to make parts for the t-crafts we have now before they all have to be grounded for lack of usable parts.