News from the Factory III

[CraigH]

Re: News from the Factory III

Harry's out and out dishonesty with customers was a pretty good early warning sign. Telling them what he thought they wanted to hear, rather than the truth. There's a reference to this in the GA News story that pretty much sums it up:

"I don't apologize for having cash flow problems, but the broken promises and out-and-out lies are sometimes out of my control. People won't let you go until you tell them what they want to hear."

For the life of me, I can't think of a single successful business that was built on a foundation of untruth. Eventually, the foundation will come crumbling down.

The signs were there 3 years ago for those who wanted to see them. At that time it seems like the Taylorcraft community was split into 3 camps:

1) those that had already been screwed (or were being screwed) by the factory.

2) those who wanted group number one to shut-up and "give the factory a chance".

3) those who were just waiting around to see what happened.

Maybe I'm missing some posts, but most of the group #2 camp have been awful scarce around here lately.

[Richard Boyer]

Re: News from the Factory III

That is because group 2 gave the factory a chance. It was up to the factory to make good.

I personally find all of this really sad. I really love my Tcraft and sure wish the factory would suceed. The newspaper articles and personal experiences seem to conclude otherwise.

Sad.

[CraigH]

Re: News from the Factory III

That is because group 2 gave the factory a chance. It was up to the factory to make good.

I can't speak for all the others in group 1, but I'll be that most of us (as I did) wanted the factory to succeed as well. If we hadn't, we wouldn't have done business with them in the first place. I was thrilled that Taylorcraft was going back into production, and especially happy that the factory was located in Texas. The only reason I (and I suspect the others) made public our greviences was because we wanted to warn others. It was painfully obvious to me 3 years ago how this story would end, and now it seems to have run it's course. Perhaps if more of the people in group 2 had actually done business with the factory, they would have been members of group 1 themselves.

[Doc]

Re: News from the Factory III

Howdy: I just opened (10-17-2006) my parts delivery from the factory (placed 3 weeks ago) - received an new instrument panel and some new ribs COD from them (PMA stamped). I called and spoke with Dianna and David Norcross about the troubles - they seem to be answering phones, questions, etc. I am still waiting for my fairleads and asked for two butt ribs to be delivered AFTER David faxed me an exploded left wing drawing and asked me to confirm which two butt ribs I wanted. David said the Sheriff's sale was cancelled and the prior sale of fixtures wound up with the fixtures being returned to the factory. Sooo, the sga continues. David said they are working on a backlog of orders. Doc

[Grant S. Bailey]

Re: News from the Factory III

I am with Craig. I also knew very early that this business would fail. I was successful in getting some parts very early on, but things deteriorated on my second order, and I got screwed on my third order (credit card charged, parts not delivered). Fortunately I got my money back from VISA. It became apparent very early on that the stories I was receiving on each successive phone call did not jive and that I was simply being lied to. There is nothing more insulting than being lied to, and there was no way this company could succeed with such practices. I am sure if we had only been told the truth, most of us would have understood and had patience waiting for parts or jobs to get completed. But don't lie to me, and don't charge me for stuff you haven't shipped. Perhaps I should have said more on this forum, but there was the group who came down on those of us who knew what was transpiring and I decided to stay out of it and watch the inevitable happen.

It's sad alright. I just hope the tooling, plans, and documentation doesn't get destroyed or scattered all the way across North America.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: News from the Factory III

Although I was also hoping Harry would suceed, I knew sucess would be bleak when he decided to build airplanes instead of focusing on parts, restorations, and repairs. We were distributors for T-craft back when they were in Lock Haven and told them at that time to concentrate on supporting what is already out there. Instead, they exhausted resources trying to build a pile of parts (airplane) for one person instead of building a pile of parts for many people (parts for airplanes that already exist). Do the math. If you actually sold each individual part at list price, it added up to more than the value of a sold flying airplane and you did not have to build the airplane. (I have done this). There seems to be this mystic about being an airplane manufacturer, that people seem to think if you build them, they will come. Unfortunately today's market can't support a $70K tcraft very long.

Look at Classic Waco, Air Repair Stearmans, Bellanca Viking, and a few others. When they came out, they sold as fast as they could build them. unfortunately the market was saturated within 5 years and now they only build a couple a year versus 25 a year just a few years ago. I know those listed above are more expensive, but the Tcraft doesn't even offer what the Supercub, Maule, or even the Decathalon offers from a market perspective.

Delays don't alway mean money problems. Hell, I have been waiting on the FAA for 4 freakin months to make a simple name change on my Type Certificates so I can finish my Production Certificate Certification which we have been approved for almost 1 year!! Unless you are a huge corporation with DAR's and DER's on staff to expedite paperwork, you are low man on the todempole and delays are an everyday occurance. I have become so sick of the crap I am just about ready to go postal.

Mike

[ClipWing_T]

Re: News from the Factory III

Legend here in Sulphur Springs has already sold over 60 aircraft in less
than two years and DELIVERED them and still getting orders. It's not
JUST because they had deep pocket financing either, they have a product
that is more marketable. How many Taylorcrafts could actually be sold
each year? An airplane that is cramped and hard to see out of. Now before you
get all bent out of shape I LOVE TAYLORCRAFTS!! How much actual value
does it have to the airplane buyers market? Unfortunately for us its all about
SHOW ME DA MONEY! Too bad Mr. Taylor wasn't 6' 4". I still hope somebody
can get Taylorcraft on the road to success. It's a cool little bird.

[dmcneil]

Re: News from the Factory III

Hey All,

Taylorcraft has declared bankruptcy. Here's the story from the Brownsville Herald:

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_comments.php?id=73329_0_10_0_C

Sad day...

Dan

[barnstmr]

Re: News from the Factory III

It is amazing how fast you can rack up a $ million in debt!

This is too bad. There's a real business opportunity there, but its worth nowhere near a $million for initial investment.

Also stinks for those who got their $ taken by Harry.

[1938BF50]

Re: News from the Factory III

"Ingram wouldn’t say why his name disappeared from new Taylorcraft documents, such as its reincorporation in the state of Texas. His wife’s name is the only one that appears."

I nearly bust a gut laughing when I read the above quote from the paper!
If I ever hide behind my wife, just take me out behind the woodshed and shoot me! Sounds like the kahuna's in question are not brass but plastic and the size of a couple undernourished U.P blackflies. Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[VictorBravo]

Re: News from the Factory III

Taylorcraft has declared bankruptcy.

G*D Damnit, wll someone who knows him please call Tom Wathen out at FlaBob airport... or Kermit Weeks... or the Pobereznys... or SOMEONE wth a few dollars in their pocket who likes old airplanes... and once and for all take these idiot con-men out of the type certificate ownership gene pool?

[Winston L.]

Re: News from the Factory III

"Ingram wouldn’t say why his name disappeared from new Taylorcraft documents, such as its reincorporation in the state of Texas. His wife’s name is the only one that appears."

I nearly bust a gut laughing when I read the above quote from the paper!
If I ever hide behind my wife, just take me out behind the woodshed and shoot me! Sounds like the kahuna's in question are not brass but plastic and the size of a couple undernourished U.P blackflies. Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Mrs. Ingram definetly "wears the pants".

Winston

[N96337]

Re: News from the Factory III

G*D Damnit, wll someone who knows him please call Tom Wathen out at FlaBob airport... or Kermit Weeks... or the Pobereznys... or SOMEONE wth a few dollars in their pocket who likes old airplanes... and once and for all take these idiot con-men out of the type certificate ownership gene pool?

For some reason Bill, aviation seems to attract this type of "con-men" like the flies they really are... been there and seen that upclose.... I guess it always will, and unfortunately there will always be those of us that believe these people and give them a chance.
JH

[Steve Pierce]

Re: News from the Factory III

Karma.

[redefininglife]

Re: News from the Factory III

Mrs. Ingram definetly "wears the pants".

Winston

I actually feel sorry for Darlene Ingram. It's my understanding and belief, that she borrowed money from her parents to try and keep Taylorcraft afloat, way back in the La Grange days (is that the $60,000 debt listed on the bankruptcy petition). What a position for her to be in, now. If anyone needs to grow a set ("brass" type), it's her. I'd have kicked him to the curb a long time ago.