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Re: Factory Sherriff's sale
This is a group of airplane enthisuasts, pilots and airplane owners. By DEFINITION there will be egos here. I may regret saying this later, but Forrest has earned the majority of whatever ego he has regarding T-crafts. There are a few points on which I have disagreed with his decisions publicly, and I stand by what I said, but overall I believe he has indeed put in far more time and effort than anyone else. Although (my ego) could suggest a few changes in how things are done in the details, the fact is clear to me that there aren't any better hands for the Foundation to be in than his.
Everyone seems to have some parts of a valid point. Terry, you (and everyone) are entitled to know the stated purposes and activities of the Foundation. Forrest, in my personal opinion (as only one individual member), those stated purposes should be more specific than the brief generic boilerplate text that has been mentioned in the recent posts. IMHO there should be an agenda and a list of things the Foundation does and wants to do. Yes I'll put my time where my mouth is and write out what I would like to see, if it is wanted.
However, there is no obligation for the Foundation to seek out ownership of the type certificate or to manufacture parts. The Luscombe guys did it with an unknown degree of success. The NAvion guys did too much and got their balls put in a vice for making undocumented parts. The Swift guys I believe have had troubles but I don't know the details.
So I am guessing there is probably more to this than meets the eye, and perhaps Forrest knows this from experience. Perhaps the Foundation should have the TC and make parts, perhaps not. I strongly hope that those things are pursued, but I have no direct experience with that stuff. I offered to pitch in whatever talents and experience I have that might be useful. Forrest has heard that from me more than once. But the point is that I can only contribute a certain amount of actions, a certain small amount of money, and a very small amount of expertise. Most of us are in the same boat, meaning that there would still have to be a group of full time leaders to actually get something done.
I believe Forrest's big complaint is that there is this huge part of the iceberg that is not addressed by all the well-wishing and small contributions from members like me. He has time and time again said "anyone who has a workable plan contact me and I'll discuss it". That challenge has gone un-met to my understanding.
Terry you're a DER which is a high value resource to the club if you're willing to help out. But there are likely some limits on how much help you are willing to be for free. Same with the engineers and other resources on this group.
There needs to be a real live production manager and business person to run the business end of making airplanes or even parts. As I mentioned, the Foundation could subcontract that out to a PMA specialist and not have to hire managers. I would think this is the ideal situation, where the Foundation owns that tooling and rights, but has some company like Univair, Wag-Aero, Aerometals etc. make the parts.
I agree with Terry that there may indeed be enough people here who would go into their pockets and donate money to make an offer on the assets. Since nobody seems to know what the selling price would be, then by the same token nobody knows whether we're not talking about having enough money. After ten or more ownership changes and nobody making any real money on it, I would think the price would be fairly reasonable.
This is a group of airplane enthisuasts, pilots and airplane owners. By DEFINITION there will be egos here. I may regret saying this later, but Forrest has earned the majority of whatever ego he has regarding T-crafts. There are a few points on which I have disagreed with his decisions publicly, and I stand by what I said, but overall I believe he has indeed put in far more time and effort than anyone else. Although (my ego) could suggest a few changes in how things are done in the details, the fact is clear to me that there aren't any better hands for the Foundation to be in than his.
Everyone seems to have some parts of a valid point. Terry, you (and everyone) are entitled to know the stated purposes and activities of the Foundation. Forrest, in my personal opinion (as only one individual member), those stated purposes should be more specific than the brief generic boilerplate text that has been mentioned in the recent posts. IMHO there should be an agenda and a list of things the Foundation does and wants to do. Yes I'll put my time where my mouth is and write out what I would like to see, if it is wanted.
However, there is no obligation for the Foundation to seek out ownership of the type certificate or to manufacture parts. The Luscombe guys did it with an unknown degree of success. The NAvion guys did too much and got their balls put in a vice for making undocumented parts. The Swift guys I believe have had troubles but I don't know the details.
So I am guessing there is probably more to this than meets the eye, and perhaps Forrest knows this from experience. Perhaps the Foundation should have the TC and make parts, perhaps not. I strongly hope that those things are pursued, but I have no direct experience with that stuff. I offered to pitch in whatever talents and experience I have that might be useful. Forrest has heard that from me more than once. But the point is that I can only contribute a certain amount of actions, a certain small amount of money, and a very small amount of expertise. Most of us are in the same boat, meaning that there would still have to be a group of full time leaders to actually get something done.
I believe Forrest's big complaint is that there is this huge part of the iceberg that is not addressed by all the well-wishing and small contributions from members like me. He has time and time again said "anyone who has a workable plan contact me and I'll discuss it". That challenge has gone un-met to my understanding.
Terry you're a DER which is a high value resource to the club if you're willing to help out. But there are likely some limits on how much help you are willing to be for free. Same with the engineers and other resources on this group.
There needs to be a real live production manager and business person to run the business end of making airplanes or even parts. As I mentioned, the Foundation could subcontract that out to a PMA specialist and not have to hire managers. I would think this is the ideal situation, where the Foundation owns that tooling and rights, but has some company like Univair, Wag-Aero, Aerometals etc. make the parts.
I agree with Terry that there may indeed be enough people here who would go into their pockets and donate money to make an offer on the assets. Since nobody seems to know what the selling price would be, then by the same token nobody knows whether we're not talking about having enough money. After ten or more ownership changes and nobody making any real money on it, I would think the price would be fairly reasonable.
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