Rate of climb and density altitude

[mhorowit]

Im looking for something that will tell me the rate of climb from 1000-5000 feet for the BC-12-D in the temperature range of 80-95 degrees F.

The manual sez 500fpm, but makes no mention of temperature,

I'm using the non-turbo A-65 - MIke

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

A VSI will if you have one I don't Taylorcraft's was not equipt with them in 46.
Time = watch, altitude = altimeter. Change in altitude over time = rate of climb. Sound like a test fligth, Ahh. Have fun
And if the temperature is up Expect less!

The Fleet Canuck I trained on hade no number in the book, but did evrything @ 80 Mph. In order to get over the tall trees we hade to use 65 for best angel of climb. Now 20 years later the trees are taller,and I have only 65 nonturbo versas a 85 nonturbo, more wing to float on lower stall speed I do my best at rate of climb at 60? or lower. Stall is 42 indicated. So I dont go where the tall trees are anymore. This is there the G.P.S comes in. As in good piloting skills.
Have fun. I will when my new mags have arived.
Len

[mhorowit]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Yes Len, I can do that.
But I cannot tell you right now how she'll climb tomorrow when the temp changes from a delightful 78 to a miserable 95 F. All at gross weight. - MIke

[VictorBravo]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

From an old broken down competition sailplane racer in another lifetime.... the Sage brand variometer is the best and most accurate rate of climb instrument on this planet.

It isexpensive, so you might want to rent or borrow one if it is just for a few test flights.

There are also sme gps units or even altimeter watches that will calculate rate of climb.

That being said, I don't think it means @!*($%^ what the exact numerical rate of climb is. What matters is whether you get over the wires at the end of the runway

Bill

[Robert Lees]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Why do you need to know this, Mike?

[mhorowit]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Why do you need to know this, Mike?

Rob - first, let's talk brakes, then fpm.
My right brake hasn't worked for %&$^ since I bought it. In fact, when the owner had me taxii it around I commented on it and he shrugged it off. So, I've been complaining and moaning to anyone who would listen.( I'm convinced I might have avoided the famous culver incident if my brake had worked.) Then I got an old brake and played around with it, comparing the camming action to your paper on the subject. My spare worked as described and I could see good motion. Went out to the airport, hoping it had been assembled incorrectly. Nope. It just wouldn't expand like my spare did. Then I remembered you saying something about lubing the pivot points. Applied a dab of axle grease to the bearing surfaces of the cam on both end and re-assemblemd it. Did some minor adjusting (adjustors) and lo and behold!! Brakes on the right side!!. That was friday. Just got back from playing around the edges of the mountains (That's where the FPMs come in ) and practicing with my 'new' brakes. Wow!! I can stop. The culvert is no longer an option!!!

Now the FPMs - The only thing keeping me from flying to Alliance this year is the (are the) Appalacian Mountains(actually a series of ridges). Not mountains by european or Westen US standards, but peaks along the ridgelines reaching 3700. Since I'll be flying west, I'll have to go over at less than 3000' or at 5500'. Since I've read that if there is a wind across the mountains, I could get involved with some turbulence on the 'lee' side, the 5500' option is looking practical. UNLESS the cloud bottoms are less than 6000' or the CU are not widely spaced. So now fuel management becomes an issue, as I'll be over the mountains for an hour and there are no convenient stops along the way. And I have no doubt it will be hot which means a miserably slow rate of climb (hence my question) and a gobbling up of fuel (which I will need when I finally get to 5500, or when I find I have to dodge clouds (hence more gas).

So, If I knew the rate of climb for my beast, I could tell you how much fuel I'll need!

Stay tuned - I need to learn if dodging clouds is really practical. - Mike


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[Robert Lees]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

I'll have to go over at less than 3000' or at 5500'

Not the old semi-circular- or quadrantal-rule thingy?

I do not believe that applies in mountainous terrain. Unless you have inadvertently solved the age-old CFIT problem?

Glad the brake issue seems to be getting resolved... as for the Appalatian crossing, look out the front window. That's where any danger will appear.

Rob

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Mike take a look at part 91.159 vfr cruising altitude or level flight.
Going west you'll be at even plus 500, so under 3000' or the next step up 4500'. A lot of the time when heading west the wind is close to your nose. Usually the higher you go the higher the wind speed. So it becomes a game of just high enough not to get beaten to death by the orthographics and not so high that you are standing still in a head wind. The plus side is that you should have tailwinds when heading east (yeah right!) so take advantage of those and cruise high in the fast stuff at odd plus 500'. Also read part 91.159 carefully where it says "..... each person operating an aircraft under VFR in level cruising flight more than 3,000 feet above the SURFACE shall maintain the appropriate altitude or flight level prescribed below........." I capitalized the critical word. I believe Rob was alluding to this phrase also. (Last year Frederick MD. to Alliance OH. we averaged 60 mph ground speed. While cranking out close to our average 81 mph airspeed. That meant a fuel stop at Bedford PA. Nice people. That may be relatively close to your route. A fun exercise when your'e planning your route on the chart is to calculate time differential from the straight line route if you add in a fuel stop off the direct route. Although the deviation looks gross on the chart, timewise it may only add a few extra minutes overall.
Rob is right; look out the 'front window', most of the hills are well below 3700' Just make minor adjustments to miss the ones that will eat you. Fly early and rest in the afternoon when it's turbulent, then fly again in the evening when it smooths out.
As far as fuel used for climb, usually I figure I get it back in a cruise descent. Don't know if you guys with those fancy, modern, post war 12ds have mixture controls but after a certain time at altitude when leaned properly you should save more gas than if you had not climbed. Sorry for the preaching. One of the most satisfying things about flying these old planes is working out the challenges for a particular trip and then actually finding the right airport on the other end.

[mhorowit]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

You're correct it is AGL; I'm too use to flying on the flats.
What's your experience been with wind coming over the mountains causing dangerous turbulance? - Mike

[jgerard]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

If the winds are blowing more than 20 mph at the same alt as the mountain peeks it will be a bumpy ride at and up to 1000' above the peaks. IF you are not used to turb in a Tcraft I would suggest staying out of them hills because it can be a bit nerve racking for those with little mountain flying exp. Try to cross before 10 am, the winds generally are worse between 10am and 5-6pm due to convection. Service ceiling for a 65hp T in average condition is still over 10K' at gross weight. Learn how to slope soar using ridge lift and you will be amazed at how fast a Tcaft gains alt. Working the hills for lift on the way is where you can get most of your alt gains from. Don't hesitate to pull a few 360's to stay in a good updraft and gain an extra 1000' before moving on to the next one. There has to be someone near you that with mountain flying exp. who could go fly with you a bit, try to find a glider pilot and take him up to show you how to thermals the plane. No need for a vsi in a tcraft, with practice your "Butt" is the best instrument available to you and it does take practice to hone the "Seat of the pants" flying skills just like learning to fly on instruments would. Like I said before, go take her up to alt and fly around a bit to get used to being up there and how the plane feels. Practice slow flight, steep turns, and stalls at 8K'

PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!

Jason
N43643

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

I have a vsi in my T and only use it to try and maintain altitude......on really long crosscountries. otherwise I don't give a flip.

I just went on a 6 hour crosscountry to Starkville Ms to visit a buddy and had a heck of a time! (was VERY fun). He asked what altitute I flew and I replied, "3500, 3700, 4500, 4000, 4200.......just depended on where I got "bumped"".

I include the vsi in my cross check just to see what is going on, oh and bragging rights when it hits 1000' a minute on really cool days with a hell of a headwind! Do that in your spam can!!

I have been thinking of JATO to really up the ante, but haven't figured out how to protect the fabric yet......

Richard Boyer
N95791

[mhorowit]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Starkville Ms

Hey! - I went to school in Starkville - Mike

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

High School or University?

Richard Boyer
N95791
MSU 91'

[lfries]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Up to 9,500 with two full size adults going up into the Sierras. East Coast Mountains are considered foothills out here on the West Coast. Knew of one T crafter that went to well over 12,000" with two full size adults to cross from Nevada to Calif. With only 65HP he could out do his son in a 100hp c150.

[mhorowit]

Re: Rate of climb and density altitude

Up to 9,500 with two full size adults going up into the Sierras. East Coast Mountains are considered foothills out here on the West Coast. Knew of one T crafter that went to well over 12,000" with two full size adults to cross from Nevada to Calif. With only 65HP he could out do his son in a 100hp c150.

If there is no ceiling, I"m golden; if few, I'll do it. if low, it's "launch the limo" - Mike