Hydraulic Brakes

[akndrifter]

I picked up a nice little F-19 over the summer, got some bushwheels for her this fall when they went on sale, now I need hydraulic brakes. Does anyone have a favorite A&P or IA in Anchorage or the Valley for this mod or Taylorcrafts in general? Also, about how much does it cost?

[astjp2]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

Larry Draveling at Wolf lake, goes by WLAS. He owns a tcraft and has done it before. Tim

[astjp2]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

Do you want toe brakes or are you good with the heel brakes and the hydraulics? Cost will vary, toe brakes is expensive because you have to remove the engine and boot cowl to weld in structure to mount the master cylinders. I did toe brakes and made all of the part myself, but if you are paying, its a lot of labor. Heel brakes would use a pull cylinder mounted on the gear, then its just a short hose to the calipers. That requires welding or strapping a mount for the master cylinder to the gear legs and then getting the grove adapters to mount your brakes. I went with McCauley wheels because I got them complete for $250, Clevelands used will run 500+ each used unless you get lucky. Masters are $410 each

http://www.groveaircraft.com/mcpull.html

TIm

[cbcfly]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

Grove makes a kit now that mounts in the fuselage and attaches to the original heel brakes and the pulley bracket. I just bought it about 2 months ago. Around $3k for the whole shooting match (wheels, master cylinders, etc). Haven't installed it yet. It's PMA'd parts, but you'll still need get an approval because it's not STC'd. It's a little different setup up than Terry Bowden sells (quite a bit simpler), but he still told me he'd help with the paperwork.

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?11513-Announcing-FAA-TSO-Approved-Grove-Wheels-amp-Brakes-for-Taylorcraft

I have essentially this same setup installed via prior 337 on my T. Some of my parts have been superseded by updated components.

These mods get expensive as the years roll on and it becomes hard to justify spending 10-20% of an aircraft's recoverable value on brakes or whatever, as everybody wants the product for as cheap as possible. Parts are one item...labor is additional assuming an approval can be obtained.

Good luck with your options.

Gary

[astjp2]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

You NEED hydraulic brakes with bushwheels, they are 20% of the cost of the of the airplane by themselves. Tim

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

You NEED hydraulic brakes with bushwheels, they are 20% of the cost of the of the airplane by themselves. Tim

Yes it all adds up Tim. Bushwheels $2-2500 depending upon model; better brakes $3-4000. But then one has to ask is it worth the expense? Given T's are relatively inexpensive compared to Pipers and homebuilt Bush Vehicles then maybe the overall end result is worth the cost of the mods. You're still ahead financially (maybe behind is better) than other similarly equipped aircraft.

Gary

[akndrifter]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

For some reason I thought WLAS retired, I know he's been active here in the past. Would you mind pm'ing his number? I wouldn't mind keeping the heel brakes as it's set up on both sides right now. I'm still money ahead of buying a similar PA-11 or J-3, plus I have a lot more baggage and useful load (although I'd still love a PA-11 too).

I'm thinking double pucks are the way to go with 29s, has anyone else run a set up like that?

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

I went from a restored PA-11 C-90 with flaps to my T. I wouldn't go back as the 11 is not a PA-18...useful load and cockpit configuration is made for a midget (seat/tubing configuration). If you need a PA-18 then own one.

I'm on 26" Airstreaks for weight and forward visibility. The Grove brakes are good and any more would make for a potential prop hit.

Gary

[Guest]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

Check this out => http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread...ighlight=grove

also this => http://dc65stc.blogspot.com/2016/06/...ve-wheels.html

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

One comment...I'm not much of a brake'er guy. If the strip is that short I'd really have to have a good reason to be there. All I've ever needed is to ability to slow, stop, and turn under reasonable circumstances on tires. Cub 4" wheels and stock expander brakes with 25x11x4" tires got me by for years on PA-18's and 11's. If we can deal with non-brake skis or floats, then...?

The 26" tires I have now aren't that much larger than 8.50's, but they do offer some better shock absorption and improved flotation which I like. But I don't like the loss of forward 3-PT visibility over smaller tires.

Having said that if the OP needs better brakes then the Grove setup will provide the best that's available.

Gary

[akndrifter]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

I'm not planning on getting to crazy, but I believe bushweels specifies double puck brakes in the stc. I had the 26" Airstreaks on my old tcraft, but decided to go for the 29" Airstreaks this time because they were on sale and I knew I'd want them eventually. Buy once cry once. I have a handful of hours in a PA-11, it was a blast to fly. Didn't seem to small for me, but it was 15-20 slower than my current F-19 and the "legal" useful load wasn't nearly as good.

[astjp2]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

I may order a set of the new desser 8.50's, they are REAL LIGHT compared to the air hawks I have...

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

Yes the Airstreaks say heavy duty brakes required as a note on the approval list. And yes I'd not go back to stock brakes on mine. The main reason I bought them is for ops on lake ice in the spring when skis won't get me back to Fairbanks where it melts earlier than out in the woods. Still I like to see over the nose which isn't possible even on 26" tires and Scott 3200 tail. A longer tail spring would help.

The PA-11 can be modded via the Atlee Dodge paperwork I had that allows the installation of a PA-18 birdcage that does away with the tubing and front spar that sit inches in front of the pilot's head. Plus a taller PA-18 seat that sits the pilot up off the floor. Too much J-3 in a PA-11...same TCDS and no gross weight increase (1220#) versus the PA-18-90 that went to 1500.

GAry

[PA1195]

Re: Hydraulic Brakes

I may order a set of the new desser 8.50's, they are REAL LIGHT compared to the air hawks I have...

https://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-and-Tubes/850-6-4-PLY-AERO-CLASSIC-SMOOTH-TUNDRA-AERO-CLASS-AA4K5.asp

I'd install these as well Tim unless I absolutely needed the flotation and shock absorption of 26" Airstreaks.

Gary