Sad event

[PA1195]

http://ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20130717X71905&ntsbno=CEN13FA416&akey=1

I don't know if this Forum supports NTSB accident reports. If not I'll remove it.

May have involved a stall plus skidding left turn? http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-f...ip-skid-stall/

Gary

[Robert Lees]

Re: Sad event

Was this someone you knew?
Rob

[PA1195]

Re: Sad event

Was this someone you knew?
Rob

No. I read the NTSB reports to learn more about flying. Lots of Alaskan crashes over the years has led me to review the alleged circumstances and try to frame them with my personal experiences. I've lost flying friends as have others.

For example here was an experienced flight instructor in the same plane as an inexperienced would-be pilot in training. If we assume both were paying attention then who was flying the plane? Coordinated turns and airspeed control versus bank angle are important and to be taught early at a safe altitude.

We know this is important, especially in a Taylorcraft with an airfoil prone to a brisk stall and possessing an effective rudder. Perhaps someone in that airplane wasn't aware of the caution involved.

Gary

[Robert Lees]

Re: Sad event

OK, now I know it's someone you didn't know, I'll admit to my query being a loaded question:

Could the age of the Instructor be an issue? I personally do not think that people of that age should be instructing.

Just my personal opinion.

Rob

[PA1195]

Re: Sad event

OK, now I know it's someone you didn't know, I'll admit to my query being a loaded question:

Could the age of the Instructor be an issue? I personally do not think that people of that age should be instructing.

Just my personal opinion.

Rob

The high time older instructor (not necessarily a plus I agree as reaction time can diminish and muscle memory fade) apparently had about 86 hrs in that plane, the student almost 7. Who knows what overall time the instructor had in a Taylorcraft? Who knows the maintenance and rigging history and how well the engine was performing that day prior to the accident.

What's possible after flying extensively in many types is they tend to blend as far as behavior unless steps are taken to rediscover that particular aircraft's performance in different modes of flight. I won't go on speculating as we'll never know what happened except the plane hit the ground before a normal landing.

Gary

[woodmw]

Re: Sad event

http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?10018-Fatal-taylorcraft-accident

[PA1195]

Re: Sad event

http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread...craft-accident

Thanks for the prior info. I guess the NTSB final didn't reveal all. That happens.

If I were a student or instructor today I might figure out a GoPro or similar in the cockpit with audio to record the training for later review. It'd be a benefit for both in those woulda' coulda' shoulda' events that pass quickly but later can provide important insight. Sharing a review of the flight could speed up training and correct procedures that later become nasty habits.

I fly with a mid-70's 135 op that never touches the throttle right after takeoff in a checkride (he claims), yet as soon as the gear clears the takeoff surface with me aboard he's pulling throttle and prop rpm "to prolong the engine life". That's when engines often fail (due to unloading the internals) be he apparently could care less and has gotten away with it for 24K hours.

Gary

[astjp2]

Re: Sad event

And you still fly with him?

Thanks for the prior info. I guess the NTSB final didn't reveal all. That happens.

If I were a student or instructor today I might figure out a GoPro or similar in the cockpit with audio to record the training for later review. It'd be a benefit for both in those woulda' coulda' shoulda' events that pass quickly but later can provide important insight. Sharing a review of the flight could speed up training and correct procedures that later become nasty habits.

I fly with a mid-70's 135 op that never touches the throttle right after takeoff in a checkride (he claims), yet as soon as the gear clears the takeoff surface with me aboard he's pulling throttle and prop rpm "to prolong the engine life". That's when engines often fail (due to unloading the internals) be he apparently could care less and has gotten away with it for 24K hours.

Gary

[PA1195]

Re: Sad event

And you still fly with him?

No. He transported me and my dog to my cabin while I was between planes...a necessary recent event. Last trip I made he decided to helicopter the loaded C-185 w/Landes wheel penetration skis (ground loving dogs) off of snow drifts with 30* flaps instead of using a groomed strip, then quickly reduced the power.

Like I said - last trip.

Gary

[Jim Hartley]

Re: Sad event

Many pilots cheat the "Grim Reaper", for a time and then it is time to pay back. Unfortunately many innocent people are victims of a dangerous mind-set.

I check accident reports almost daily and I learn from them. A common theme is that many preventable accidents occurred as a result of many small mistakes that by themselves were not enough to result in an accident. Add them up and you have an accident.

In the mid-seventies I went to work for an out fit in Anchorage as a "ramp rat" and near the end of days of the company I had completed my ratings and was flying right seat. In the eighteen months that I worked for the company there were three accidents with fatalities. I witnessed first hand the mind-set of many of these so called "professionals". It scared me enough to realize that this was not for me. Times have changed and safety is better, although I attribute that to high insurance rates and liability.

Jim

No. He transported me and my dog to my cabin while I was between planes...a necessary recent event. Last trip I made he decided to helicopter the loaded C-185 w/Landes wheel penetration skis (ground loving dogs) off of snow drifts with 30* flaps instead of using a groomed strip, then quickly reduced the power.

Like I said - last trip.

Gary