Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

[runon]

My plane is wired for the Wag Aero generator, but the generator is not installed (because I don't have it - if someone does - let me know). I have a 7 Amp Battery running the radio and intercom, the wiring is in place and complete for the generator to run the lights in the panel, the landing light and the position lights. Problem is the wiring generator run is coiled up under the seat waiting to be hooked to the non-existent generator. Can I just connect this generator run to the battery?
***
I don't take her out night VFR, but I'd like the ability to light her up for a half hour so I can be at ease to stop in for some "just in case" fuel and not worry that I won't make it home in time.

Happy Holidays Tribe

[Pearson]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Runon,

You should be able to hook the wires from the non existent generator to a battery. Obviously you would want to follow the wires to check the circuit before you do. But it would be no problem to create a hot battery buss and connect switches to your lights and other items. But with only a 7 amp battery you are not going to power a radio, intercom, nav lights, and a landing light for very long. You would probably be OK until you turned the landing light on and tried to talk on the radio.

Maybe you could hook it all up and turn on all your lights to see how long the battery would power them. The bigger the amp size of your battery, the longer the juice will last. I have seen several people who used solar charging panels laid out on top of their glare shield to help charge a battery instead of lugging around a heavy alternator. Also, as I am sure you know, your radio doesn't use much electricity until you transmit. You might be OK with just the 7 amp battery if you could not use the landing light. That is going to really drain the battery. Hook it up and do a test run to see how long it will last. Don't forget to make a couple of transmissions on your radio so it will be more realistic.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

I have the wiring diagrams for the Ward Aero generator and two generators, one for the 41 and one for the 45. When I had them tested the shaft sheared on one and the pulley in the test rig bounced off the wall and barely missed the techs head. Turns out the guts of the Ward Aero are the same as for an old Evenrude outboard generator. The Evenrude generator was known for having a weak shaft too. When the shop tried to get a new shaft and armature it turns out the Evenrude is as rare as the Ward Aero unit.

I am hoping I can design a modern generator to fit in the original Ward shell. If I find a solution for fixing the originals I will share it here.

In the interim, I will be doing a wiring diagram for the whole system so it can be run from the battery with the generator out of the circuit. I guess you "could" just hook the battery in place of the generator, but why would you? It was originally designed to use the generator to keep a battery charged and all the electronics and lights were actually run from the battery already.

If you aren't in too much of a hurry I will dig out the diagrams and post them. Like Pearson said, if you turn the lights on, the battery will run down FAST. There is always the new LED lights, but you are "supposed" to get approval to put them in. I have seen the LED landing lights and they are pretty good! Put out a LOT of light and have very low current draw. The running lights are even better.

Combined with the new Li Iron batteries you could do pretty well, just DO NOT USE LITHIUM BATTERIES with the Ward generator! You will overheat the batteries and you DO NOT want a Lithium fire in your battery box! Use a LEAD ACID battery with the Ward wind generator.

Hank

[M Towsley]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Or..... just don't fly at dusk.

[barnstmr]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Or..... just don't fly at dusk.

Marty!... SAY IT ISN"T SO!! Did you say what I think you said??? It is one of the most sacred parts of the Pilot's Creed... Thou Shalt Fly at Sunset! Especially if you have a Taylorcraft. Its the most beautiful time of day... smooth air... watching God's creation winding down after a productive day as the sunlight slowly fades... there IS no better time to fly!

Just ask Ryan Newell. Here is a nice shot from him... enjoying the setting sun.

[M Towsley]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

I should correct that, it should have said just don't fly at night. Lol

[barnstmr]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Marty, I knew what you meant.. just poking fun. Did you get your Calendar in the mail yet? I love the miss Scarlet shot! Nov. 2014

[3Dreaming]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

There are some LED lights out there that are FAA/PMA'd as replacement lights. If you are replacing lights that are already installed it is just a logbook entry. They even have LED strobes built into the lights.

[Pearson]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Runon,

I personally would not have a bit of problem using a Lithium Ion battery in my airplane. As long as you are not charging it in the airplane, there should be no problem. The problems associated with them has been during the charging phase.

But before you go buying an expensive new battery I suggest just hooking up the one you have and go test it out. I would use the radio on it's own battery pack and just use the ships battery to power your nav lights for half an hour. Then turn on the landing light for the last five minutes and see how bright it is. This would simulate you having to fly home for half an hour and then turning on the landing light just before landing. If the battery still has enough power to illuminate the landing light, maybe you won't even need to do anything else. AS I understand it, you are just trying to have a back up to get you home in case you get caught out after dark.

[M Towsley]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Terry,

Nothing yet, but now that you ask it will probably be in the mail today! Thanks again!!!

[runon]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Pearson - You are right about what I'm trying to accomplish, I was flying back after putting new bungees on, I stopped in Harris ranch, then had to jump over the hill and fly up the Salinas Valley to put her to bed. By the time I purchased my meat, got out of the store and made my check in calls, checked the time etc. it was starting to get a little on the late side. It bothered me that I had to choose not to fuel up simply because I wanted to get back to Salinas before it got too dark. I made it with about 15 - 20 minutes of "questionable" lighting/no-lighting time. I wasn't low on fuel, but I had to put her to bed with the wing tanks empty, and I hate doing that. I like your idea about a test run, I'll be doing that after I get her wired. Also, the radio is loose equipment, so I can run it stand alone if the Lead/Acid goes dead. - Thanks

Hank - I would VERY MUCH be interested in seeing the diagram. I haven't gotten to dig in too much, perhaps there are some loose wires from the buss waiting to be hooked to the battery. We'll see when I get a chance to pull the glove box and see how they wired the buss and switches and like you all said trace everything back to their origins (as best as I can) And that shaft gunning for the mechanics head...!!! HO-LY $#!t. That could have killed the guy if it didn't critically injure him.

Noted the L.E.D's ... That has my interest. And the Lithium batteries - didn't know that, wasn't planning on running a generator, but wouldn't have known not to do that had I decided to install one - "good to know" doesn't quite express the severe consequences of being negligent in this regard.

Thanks all

[cvavon]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Runon if you go to the home page and cleck on the technical section and go to electrica there is the stc and 337 and wire diagram for a wind generator that was on my plane when i bought it.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Running the lights on battery alone (no generator)

Guys, there are LOTS of different types of Lithium batteries. The new Lithium Iron ones are the most stable and safe so far. The LiPo is one of the most common and is one of them that will catch fire. Actually ANY battery with a high discharge capacity rate "can" catch fire, even a lead acid, but the Lithium ones are bad because when they start burning you can't put them out.

The greatest danger is when they are being charged, but pulling too much discharge current can cause them to go into thermal runaway too. I have used LiPo batteries in a hand held that is ONLY charged outside the aircraft, but it just makes me nervous and the old NiCd pack is something I am familiar with and feel safer with. I have been working with NiCd batteries for decades, and they have less capacity, but are safer. I also like the new generation of dry electrolyte Lead Acids and the Lithium packs with EACH CELL protected! With the new circuit systems if ANY cell sees too much current it is pulled from the circuit and the pack fails, but it fails COLD. I would NEVER charge a Li pack in a plane with a pack circuit protector. Even Boeing got burned (no pun intended) on that one.

Lots of options in batteries and it has been over ten years since I was on the NASA Battery Working Group. The technology is changing DAILY. Just be careful, and of you are not sure, fall back to what you are comfortable with. If you are going with LiPo or LiIon get a charger bag (fire proof bag) and charge with it in a metal bucket with sand in it. NEVER leave a new pack on charge and not watch it! If it catches fire, be REAL CAREFUL how you try to put it out. Sometimes it is better to have the bucket burn out on the ramp. If you see ANY distortion or damage to the cells, TURN THEM IN AND DON'T CHARGE THEM. DON'T chuck them in the trash!

Hank

By the way, DO NOT MAIL DAMAGED BATTERIES BACK TO THE MANUFACTURER! Burning mail trucks are NOT funny! Be VERY careful when you handle them.