Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

[wmfife]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

Just for everyone's benefit who may still want to know, I have looked very closely at the publicity close-up shots taken 12-2 and 12-12-40 of at least two of the earliest Deluxe models and they all show faint, subtle but discernable undulations across the surface of the cast grill trim strips just as I have described. They aren't perfectly flat.

Perhaps on the later production units this was changed but between the Alliance Memory Project and Chet Peek's book this is all I've got to study.

Based on this then I am opting not to use a flat file to dress these grills, which incidentally were described by the seller as coming from a '41 Deluxe and rare. I am taking that to mean they are original manufacture, though why they were on a Deluxe in rough cast mode is still a bit of a mystery; perhaps they flew painted (?) A stamped set from the same seller has rather professionally-applied what appears to be Taylorcraft Maroon all over. I will be offering those for sale along with several others.

You know what antique dealers say about too much polishing and reducing value. Very few of the ones in early pics show a totally mirror-like finish. While most were bright & shiny still they did not quite look like chrome. Aluminum after all was still a fairly new thing in aviation (..and everywhere else, back then) so was part of the attraction to potential buyers. It was important to be able to tell the difference.

Restoring an antique I've said is about getting inside the manufacturer's head. I have been trying to do that seriously now for about the past ten years.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I see what you are saying and agree, however what I am referring to is my grills look like shark skin. A small close grain roughness, that if not eliminated, looks like crap. I have not used a file at all, just hand sanding with a bit of Dremel at first. In places there were was as much as 30 to 50 thousandths changes in elevation of the surface. I had areas that looked like a plateau approx. 1/2" in dia. that were raised above the surrounding metal. Yes, the undulations you speak of are from the casting process (shrinking, cooling) and do not detract from the over all looks at all. But the surface itself is very ruff and that is what I am working on. In doing so I probably am going to far in my polishing after getting to the smooth point; but my anal retentiveness starts to show then! Larry

[wmfife]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I don't think mine were as rough as yours sound Larry. These are dull gray and have a worn sandy texture, somewhere between weathered granite and stream-washed rock. That's a surface preferred by some painters as it tends to help the lower-end paints with adhesion. But at this point I'm only speculating as to why these weren't finished. (The center grill was finished and only needs light touch-up & polish.)

..File photos (aka "before"):

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

Shark Skin? Textured? Those are FINISHED products compared to mine! Mine is rougher than an old concrete block. I mean ROUGH! It has chunks sticking out and huge pieces of flash on it.
Now I understand how the ones we have been talking about could be polished up with a brass brush. I kept looking at mine and thinking, OK, if they say all this will smooth out with a wire brush I will give it a try, but I'm thinking a course file would be an easier start!
Looks like we have different starting points!
Hank

[wmfife]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I'm just wondering, as these were factory-produced parts originally - does anyone know whether the Alliance facility had a sandblaster?

It's for sure they didn't turn these out by hand. I mean rib stitching is one thing, but -

@Hank - you might consider using a steel wire wheel instead of brass. It's all about looking the work over and assessing the need. There are all kinds of attachments available including rotary sanders. Just a thought.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I'm looking at a DynaFile and a drum sander on a die grinder to start. When I get it to the "shark Skin stage I will try the brass wire brush.

As for where the grills were made, around WW-II small foundries were all over the place. With the fires they had at the factory I would bet they weren't interested in setting up a small foundry of their own, especially when they were so common.

When I was younger I actually did some light foundry work. Making Aluminum from Bauxite is very hard, but a small charcoal of gas furnace is something you can do in your back yard for aluminum work. We cast Kirksite, Lead and Aluminum is a garage for a toy soldier small business. We even made our own drop cast column and centrifugal casters. It gets exciting when a mold bursts full of molten metal under pressure! Oh well, we were young and dumb. What surprised me about the rough grills I have is how ROUGH they are! When we cast the toys, they came out of the mold with all the details intact. You could even see the tail hairs on a horses tail and main clearly defined! Of course we were using a high temp silicone, not rough sand.

Hank

Hank

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

If you go back and look at my pics you will one grill still has a lot of flashing but a little work with a Dremel is takeing care of that. Thats the easy part! But getting the surface to one level is the hardest part. Once I switch from dry sanding to wet sanding at about 120 to 220 it goes along a lot easier and faster. Another week end, and few hours sanding..........Ho.....Hum But I may finish up number two of the three! Hallelujah!!!!
Larry

PS: Bill, your do look a lot smoother then mine. Mine are from a ruff sand cast.

[wmfife]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I am wondering how easy it is to tell which of these were original manufacture and which are re-castings. Are there any records of aftermarket in this area other than from this list?

Taking another look at my set especially the RH one that's complete the surface only looks and feels dull with tarnish, generally dirty /dusty but far from rough other than on the back side. I would venture to say my first guess of its having been painted in lieu of bare-surface finishing may actually have been right. Just tried some steel wool and may forego any more wire wheels, at least on the outer surfaces.

Does anyone know anything about this? Larry are your rough ones part of the batch of those made for list members here that time? That's quite a lot of flash on that one.

I was right once before, but have trouble remembering it.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Cast & stamped cowl grills on eBay

I have only been on this list about 3 or 4 years so do not know of any being cast here but I always thought mine were a poor copy made much later. They just have that cheap, made down to a price rather then up to a quality look. However number 2 is coming along now I am through 400 grit ready to go to 600. Larry

PS: These would have been way to much hand labor for a production line.