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**Robert Lees** · 03-21-2013, 15:54

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Ralph,

I can't help with cores, but my own view (despite the consensus) is to avoid Slicks.

There is a bunch of info on the Technical Resources page of the Foundation site (here) that describes the Case Service Manual; scroll down the page a little.

These manuals were courtesy of Joel Severinhaus (formerly of this parish) who had his Case mags overhauled; I might be able to put the two of you in touch if he is still around.

Personally, I use Eismanns: simple, reliable and they are not Slicks, so I love them.

Rob

**Robert Lees** · 03-21-2013, 15:56

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Oh...I forgot...remember that Slicks were only designed for a 500 hour life; my Eismanns are at 3600 hours, with only routine maintenance.

**magman** · 03-21-2013, 17:26

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

My guess is the TCM/Bendix is just a new identification system . Why?

ACS has rebuilt Bendix for about $600.

My thought on Slicks is they are ok to 500 insp

& then on to about 1000 hrs.

When you have to replace bearings, Distributor Blocks, etc it

is better to get another new one.

My belief is that ALL mags should be service @ the 500 hr point.

Many folks having problems ignored this.

After the 1000 hr point I think the TCM/Bendix is the way to go.

PMA parts are available & you can buy a "part" ; not an "assembly".

BTW- My take on mag failures is the Impulse Coupling Spring often

rusts & fails on underutilized aircraft.

**jim cooper** · 03-21-2013, 21:11

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

A fellow in st. Mary's, penna who rebuilds Stearmans and helicopters told me a few years ago that bendix mags were the very best and that after slicks sold out they were not the best. A pal at my airport, who has rebuilt a magnificent maule from real battered specimen called me over to his hangar last summer and pointed to a recent slick he had taken apart to inspect. He said this thing is a piece of crap however they were expensive and I have to use them. He also rebuilt a very nice champ and is an AI. Not being a mechanic I try to gather wisdom from others when possible and pass on my research for what it may be worth. Best, JC.

**flybikefarm** · 03-21-2013, 21:11

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

I have had good luck with slicks. WE put over 4000 hours on the C172 I instructed in, two matituck engines. Both engines went to TBO, and had the slicks with no problems, but were inspected every 500 hrs. Slicks are made in Rockford abour 90 mikes north of me. The factory still uses some of the same equipment that the old case mags were made with. I toured the factory when picking up the mags for the cub, nice people. George

**KewFlyer** · 03-22-2013, 17:58

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Thanks to all for the help.

A Champ friend offered me a set of Slicks Model 4230 with harness for $ 500.

Don't know the condition, even though they were used up to last fall when pulled for upgrade.

Questions: are these mags approved for the Continental A-65?.

Second: how much would an O/H - refurbish would cost on the worst case scenario? Done by a local A&P or should they be sent out to...? Savage, ????

I'm assuming that the A&P or repair shop would do a FAA form XXX return to service or an engine log book entry for the inspection and repair. Then, they can be installed.

So far, I have not found who can repair the old CASE mags.

Im also looking into refurbished Bendix & harness. Got he price for the Slicks K4334 kit, just in case.

Any ideas, suggestions are welcome.

Meanwhile, weather is great...flying with friends [ champs, J3, Supercubs, Legend Cubs ($$$)] and on each flight appreciating even more our planes.

The skylight and windows are now on the far back burner....at least for now.

Thanks to all

Ralph

**magman** · 03-23-2013, 14:17

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

First - You should know that a 4200 Series is likely 20 + years old.

Second - You don't grease the bearings; you replace the entire assy.

Third- You can go to , < FAA.gov > TCDS Continental Motors & confirm that the $230 is NOT approved for a A-65.

I think it is approved for a C-85.

You should know your dash number when checking ie " A65 - 8 ".

Fourth - You can google Continental Slick Magnet Application & get CURRENT approvals.

I seem to recall that at one time there WAS an adapter to "tailor fit " Slicks to a A-65.

A quick guess "

Impulse Coupling Spring, Carbon Brush & Contact Points would be a minimum to replace.

Probably about $180 . ( 2 mags)

So with labor it MIGHT be about $400 for 2 mags with no shipping.

Mileage may vary.

**KewFlyer** · 03-24-2013, 07:40

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Magman:

You are correct:

1- Checked the FAA TCDS for the Continental motors A-65-8F(which is the designation for my engine) and under TCDS E-205 dated Nov 01, 2011 Rev 17, it does NOT list the Slick 4320 as an approved magneto ( as you suggested) NOR it lists the Slick 4302 / 4333 listed by Teledyne Continental "Slick Magneto Application". Therefore and based on these to pieces of information, the Slick Kit 4334 would also not be an approved magneto for the A-65-8F. Interesting. I'm sure that somewhere, someplace there is a complete list of magneto applicability for the A-65-8F since 194X though today. Will keep on digging. Any advice on this is appreciated.

On the other hand, Slick ADS # 80-06-05 amendment 39-3718 states "... magneto model 4230 & 4230R serial #s 9040001 to 9040197 are designated for a list of engines including A-65-8 ( no F!). This ADS refers to a magneto recall.

2- Opened the two 4320 magnetos. Found carbon build up on the points and brushes. Pretty dark inside there. Capacitor to be tested on Monday, as well as the other parts. Spring is in good condition. Upon visual inspection, appears to be new ( or better said, newer than the other parts). IA will be checking on the applicability of the # 4320 for the A65-8F before any $$$ are spent. Otherwise, they can be returned for core value for new Continental Motor magneto, part No. 10-400458 "ignition System" ($ 2,271.43. 15 days wait) or rebuilt Bendix at ACS plus harness.

Thanks for the advice and the saga continues. Stay tuned.

Ralph

**M Towsley** · 03-24-2013, 07:59

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Ralph,

Give Joe a call at Champion Aerospace, he is the Slick guy there. I believe he used to work at Slick if my memory serves me. The number is 904-772-1909. He is a very knowledgeable, great to talk to and just a nice guy. Good luck!

**KewFlyer** · 03-24-2013, 13:05

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Thanks Marty.

Will call him tomorrow and update. Should also have a response from the IA on the mag situation and their applicability to the A-65. Based on what I have read so far, other than for what I previously posted on the subject, it appears that the Slicks 4320 not only fit on an A-65 but are also approved. Still on the "best bang for the bucks" trail for these mags.

Thanks all for the help.

Ralph

**Mark Julicher** · 03-24-2013, 18:29

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

If I had found some Bendix S4RN-21 or -20 mags for my A-65 I would prefer them to the slicks I just bought. I agree that Slick is rather lightly built and nowhere near as robust as the old Case, Eisman, or Scintilla magnetos.

Just to stir the pot some more, I just pulled two Slick 6310 mags out of a Bonanza and the impulse couplings were about to disintegrate. These magnetos are not covered under the impulse coupling AD, they had 600 hours on them, and in a few more hours this engine would have eaten the impulse couplings with catastrophic results. The mag drop was just slightly more than normal. So if you are not doing the 500 hour checkup on your Slicks and you have impulse couplings... consider yourself on borrowed time.

The following info is quoted from AIRCRAFTMAGNETOSERVICES.NET
-----------
SLICK MAGNETO:
500 Hour Inspection $250.00 + Parts (Flat Rate)
Repair $100.00+ Parts (Hourly Rate)

Field Overhaul of Slick magnetos, because of the required parts to be changed, is not economical. Exchange is advised. Slick supplies new magnetos and does not rebuild core returns.
**After disassembly and assessment, if your magneto approaches exchange cost, we will return your mag and advise you to exchange. Disassembly and assessment is at no cost. **

BENDIX MAGNETO:
500 Hour Inspection (Flat Rate) $300.00+ PARTS
Overhaul (Flat Rate) $350.00+ PARTS
Repair (Hourly Rate) $100.00+ PARTS

**KewFlyer** · 03-25-2013, 03:59

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Second that, Mark.

Magman's comments are right on.

As I discuss the mag situation with others and read posts on the J3, Aeronca, etc.. forums, the song appears to be of the same theme....Bendix is the way to go.

With Bendix, it appears to be a few options:
A- Refurbished at ACS at $ 695 plus each or $ 1,300 + or - for a pair plus harness $ 350 + or - with "acceptable" cores. Also from Quality Aircraft Accessories,Chief, Magneto Repair shop in WA ( the name escapes my memory know)
B- New from Continental $ 2,000 plus incl harness (plugs ?) with cores (?) = Ignition System.
C- "Repaired" magnetos offered at Ebay, Brnstmrs, T-a-P, etc...

There is a difference between a "refurbished" magneto and a "repaired" magneto.

"overhaul" -means a restoration process that includes the
disassembly, inspection, repair or replacement of parts, reassembly,
adjustment, refinishing and testing of an aeronautical product, and
ensures that the aeronautical product is in complete conformity with
the service tolerances specified in the applicable instructions for
continued airworthiness.

"repair" - means the rectification of deficiencies in an aeronautical
product or the restoration of an aeronautical product to an airworthy
condition.

Definitions taken from the Canadian Aviation Regulations; I can't find
similar definitions in the FARs, but I would imagine that wherever
they are, they're not far off.

The saga continues.... stay tuned.

Thanks to all

Ralph

**magman** · 03-27-2013, 07:09

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

One problem I've found with Eisemans is the Oil Seal rides

directly on the Rotating Magnet.

This leads to a groove being worn so a new Seal will not do it's task.

Bendix -20's use a sleeve that can be replaced.

**astjp2** · 03-27-2013, 21:50

Re: Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

Has anyone actually tried to get a yellow tagged bendix mag for a A-65? I am not talking about the bread box mags either. There are only 2 engine types that use those mags, the A series continental and the 65 franklin. All of the old mags had to have the magnets replace a long time ago. In 2008, when I was going to buy new mags, I had found 2 cores in different states, and there were only 3 magnets listed in stock in the entire country and cost $350 each. I wanted Bendix but not that bad. Unless TCM has reduced the prices, new ones were running $2200 each at the time. Plus you have to buy wires, and all models need the 10 year 500 hour service if you follow the recommended instructions. Oh and the bendix you need to get filters for the P-leads for another cool $100. Oh yeah, almost forgot about gears, you will need to source a pair of impulse coupling gears...they run about $350 each last I checked. Tim

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Any old Eisman or Bendix Mags laying around?

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