Runway Incursion N95598

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

I would need to dig through the paperwork, but I seem to remember having a typed sheet listing the standard configuration from the factory for both my planes. I also had the old advertising from the years that listed standard equipment for each version, but I kind of doubt the FAA would accept that as recognized documentation.
My post was more of a question than an answer. That was why I asked if anyone else knew what was used as a basis in a conformity inspection.
Hank

[dejh22]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

I would need to dig through the paperwork, but I seem to remember having a typed sheet listing the standard configuration from the factory for both my planes. I also had the old advertising from the years that listed standard equipment for each version, but I kind of doubt the FAA would accept that as recognized documentation.
My post was more of a question than an answer. That was why I asked if anyone else knew what was used as a basis in a conformity inspection.
Hank

Hank if I read this right......BC12 D has to have a right hand wing tank? A BC12 D1 does not have wing tanks?
(See Attachment of Type Cert)

[N-43121]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Regarding required and optional equipment:

Quote from Dale (dejh22) "Is there any paper work that needs to be done if you don't install the wing tank? When I start the restoration on mine I would like to eliminate my wing tanks. I was told a BC12 D has to have a right side wing tank."

Quote from Marvin (MARV) "I owned a BC12D-1 with 65 hp and it had no wing tanks and most i have seen did not come from the factory with any. Would that not mean a BC12D would not be required to have wing tamnks to be legal?"

Quote from (senior) "I'm curious Hank how you know, how it was equiped when it left the factory?
I have logs from day 1 on mine but no mention anywhere of equipment in the plane.
Short of having the original bill of sale listing the options paid for ???"

If you spend a little time with the Type Certificate (A-696), you see that:

1. the BC, and BC-65 only had the main 12-gallon nose tank. A 6-gallon right-wing auxillary tank was an option, but not required (see item 115).

2. the BC12-65, BC12-D, BC12D-85, and BC12D-4-85 all had the main tank and an auxilary 6-gallon tank in the right wing as standard and required equipment with placard per (Note 3)

3. the BC12-D1 was the same as the BC12-D except for elimination of the left-hand door, parking brake, and 6-gallon right-wing auxilary tank. The BC12-D1 was eligible as a BC12-D with installation of the left hand door and the 6-gallon right-wing auxilary tank.

So ... bottom line, IMHO, you need to keep at least the right wing tank to be in compliance as a BC12-D.

Hope that helps rather than confuses things.

Rod

[N-43121]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Hey Dale ... it looks like you and I came to the same conclusion within a minute of each other.

[dejh22]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Hey Dale ... it looks like you and I came to the same conclusion within a minute of each other.

That is to funny! Great minds think a like?


So, if you were to take out the wing tanks you would now have a
BC12 D-1?

[N-43121]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

That is to funny! Great minds think a like?


So, if you were to take out the wing tanks you would now have a
BC12 D-1?

I may be offering opinion now that you should get with your IA to confirm ... but you have a BC12-D and the right wing tank is required equipment. Since the aircraft is certified and registered as a BC12-D, it will always be. You might be able to get a 337 major modification approved to operate your specific aircraft with only the 12-gallon nose tank, but it would still be considered a BC12-D ... just a modifed one. I don't think you can ever have your airplance certified as a different model (ie: BC12-D1, or BC12D-85, etc.) even if you were to make numerous modifications. Again, I'm not an A&P or AI, so my opinion and about $3.25 will get you a medium latte.

Rod

[dejh22]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

I may be offering opinion now that you should get with your IA to confirm ... but you have a BC12-D and the right wing tank is required equipment. Since the aircraft is certified and registered as a BC12-D, it will always be. You might be able to get a 337 major modification approved to operate your specific aircraft with only the 12-gallon nose tank, but it would still be considered a BC12-D ... just a modifed one. I don't think you can ever have your airplance certified as a different model (ie: BC12-D1, or BC12D-85, etc.) even if you were to make numerous modifications. Again, I'm not an A&P or AI, so my opinion and about $3.25 will get you a medium latte.

Rod

Thanks Rod.....your opinion is valued.

The reason brought up the whole wing tank question, was because of something Terry Bowden posted on this tread,which he started.

"THE GOOD NEWS.... Spars look great. I am actually looking forward to getting back into doing some fabric work. The plan is to re-assemble without the wing tank. Determined the cause of the issue was a plugged vent in the cap. Not sure how long this has been this way... apparently a long time based on some chafe marks. I'm glad I made the decision to dive in and tear this down. I happened to find a badly corroded rear spar wing attach fitting. It appears that the 1 inch felt pad behind the fuel tank likes to retain moisture."

He may want to talk to his A&P IA about the wing tank not being installed.

[N-43121]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Now that we've totally hijacked Terry's thread ... I guess we should keep going huh?!

I have a total of 24 gallons (main plus two wing tanks) in my bird. There are sure a lot of times I wish I had more. My two favorite silver salmon fishing holes are far enough away that I carry an extra 5 or 10 gallons with me to make the round trip. I have an 85hp engine, and I'm burning a little over 5 gallons per hour, so my range isn't enough to get me there and back. I've heard of someone who has modified a BC12-D to have a total of 36 gallons ... but with my fat behind and the gear I want to carry, it would be even harder to stay under gross weight.

That's why we should all have about three airplanes. A tcraft, a 206 on floats, and a Mooney ... one can dream ...

Blue Skies,

Rod

[dejh22]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Rod I'm not even Pilot.This is my first time trying to restore an airplane. My dad use to restore Aeronca Champs and Chiefs. His first airplane was a Taylorcraft. It was also his first restore. I never did anything with him on the airplanes except go for rides. When I was 25 I talked to my dad about him and I doing a project together. Within a week he had located a basket case Champ. We were going to pick it up the next Saturday. The Wednesday before he was killed in a car accident. That was in 1990. So all these years I have thought I wish we could of. Now with the internet and sites like taylorcraft.org, I'm going to try to do a restore. I have a 1946 BC12 D. I have it all torn down. It needs patch work done on the longerons and new aileron spars. It needs wing tip bows repair/replaced. Also needs a right landing gear axle repair or replaced, I took the tires off and the axle has a small hole in it. The bearings were also bad.I have talked to an AP no longer IA, but he works with one. This is the same guy that taught my dad how to fly! I hope to get him out here next spring so he can look everything over, That way I can get a list of what needs to be done and the correct way to do it. My son is in the Air Force and is stationed in Alaska. He going to find an instructor and hopes to start next year on getting an lsa.license. I'm not a pilot and may never be one. I told my son I will try to get the Taylorcraft restored and he can give me a ride in it!

[N-43121]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Rod I'm not even Pilot.This is my first time trying to restore an airplane. My dad use to restore Aeronca Champs and Chiefs. His first airplane was a Taylorcraft. It was also his first restore. I never did anything with him on the airplanes except go for rides. When I was 25 I talked to my dad about him and I doing a project together. Within a week he had located a basket case Champ. We were going to pick it up the next Saturday. The Wednesday before he was killed in a car accident. That was in 1990. So all these years I have thought I wish we could of. Now with the internet and sites like taylorcraft.org, I'm going to try to do a restore. I have a 1946 BC12 D. I have it all torn down. It needs patch work done on the longerons and new aileron spars. It needs wing tip bows repair/replaced. Also needs a right landing gear axle repair or replaced, I took the tires off and the axle has a small hole in it. The bearings were also bad.I have talked to an AP no longer IA, but he works with one. This is the same guy that taught my dad how to fly! I hope to get him out here next spring so he can look everything over, That way I can get a list of what needs to be done and the correct way to do it. My son is in the Air Force and is stationed in Alaska. He going to find an instructor and hopes to start next year on getting an lsa.license. I'm not a pilot and may never be one. I told my son I will try to get the Taylorcraft restored and he can give me a ride in it!

Dale, Bravo! These airplanes are truly a labor of love and I'm inspired by your story. There is something about fathers and sons and airplanes that just makes everything right in the world! Congratulations on your project and I'm happy for you and your son in this endeavor. You will find lots of great people and great help with this "tribe". I caught the flying bug from my father years ago. My son helped me tear the tcraft down for rebuild, has completed ground school and lives here in Alaska as well. He grew up flying all over the state with me, but has been so busy with work lately that he hasn't been able to pursue flying lessons. I spoke with him a couple days ago and told him to plan on doing some ski flying with me this weekend (weather permitting). I plan to put him in the left seat and let the flying bug bite him good. The tcraft is such a great airplane for experiencing the "joy of flight"!

If your son wants to go for a ride in a tcraft while he's stationed here in Alaska, have him give me a call. I am ALWAYS looking for another excuse to take someone flying.

Rod

[dejh22]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Rod Thanks, I will pass on your offer to my son. He is stationed at Elmendorf. My wife and I will be up there at the end of May for a couple weeks. He is going to be a daddy and I guess that makes me a grandpa?
I love this site I spend time just going over old threads and looking up different things on the search. The people here are awesome! Enjoy your time with your son and family, life is short!

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

I'm curious Hank how you know, how it was equiped when it left the factory?
I have logs from day 1 on mine but no mention anywhere of equipment in the plane.
Short of having the original bill of sale listing the options paid for ???

Form ACA-309, Operation Limitations, has an original list of equipment as delivered from the factory. Each of our airplanes should have the ACA-309 displayed in the airplane, but very few do. A copy of this form can be found in the FAA records for your airplane and can be obtained from the FAA from here: http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/

I'll try to attach a copy of the equipment list on my Taylorcraft's ACA-309.

Garry

[barnstmr]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

WING STRUCTURE BACK TOGETHER... thanks to some guys on the forum...
Saturday: Removed wing tank & decided I needed to replace the rear spar attach fitting. AJ Frisby called with a parts lead.
Sunday: Found/ordered a used fitting - Clint Barnes. cleaned and varnished rear spar in area of fitting.
Tuesday: Received fitting.
Today: Media blasted / epoxy primered fitting. Also ordered lift struts today from Univair. Installed fitting after Church tonite. Bolt holes aligned perfectly. Re-installed drag / anti-drag wires.

Thanks AJ for getting me in touch with Clint. Thanks Clint for the quick ship. Now I am ready to go back on with Fabric... but awaiting super seam cement and clear dope.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

Terry,
I believe I can straighten your fuel tank. We can try to fix it and maybe someday you will want to put it back in.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Runway Incursion N95598

To legally fly you need a "Operations Limitations" with the List of Equipment from the factory the day she was built. It can be modified after that date but it is a very important piece of paperwork ; when I start an Annual I need registration, airworthiness , placards & markings, Operations Limitations, List of equipment , data plate, hidden ser# to match or reason why it does not match., ALL maintenance records ; logs , AD list, etc...