Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

[Ghost Rider]

I am in need of a Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve for a 1945 Taylorcraft BC12-D with a Continental A-65-F. Any suggestions on where to buy, or how to repair?
Thank You,
Rick Ketchersid
[email protected]

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Rick,
Cool, another T-craft on the Texas IH 35 corridor.

The original valves are made of pure unobtainium. If at all possible, fix yours.

Do a search on fuel valve and you will find that several of the 'tribe' have devised fixes for the problem and even posted a few pictures. There are several PMA valves such as the J-3 valve offered by Acft. Spruce that can be made to work with a re-make of the lever arm. It all depends on what your IA is willing to accept or if you can sweet talk your FSDO into a 337. We keep hoping that a STC (in development) will finally get approved.

So that was long winded to say that the valve can be replaced safely, but not necessarily legally.

Perhaps if you describe your problem someone can tell you how to go about getting yours working. There is no lack of opinions here

[Ghost Rider]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Hi Mark,

Good to meet you.

Thanks for the info. My IA is the one restoring my tcraft. One suggestion was that the Luscombe may have a compatible part. This airplane has not flown for almost 30 years and were almost done with a complete restoration on the aircraft including the engine. I am finding that some of these old parts are getting very difficult to find or replace.

Thanks again,
Rick

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Rick,
Good on you for getting a T-craft flying again. I fly a BC12-D and began restoration on an F-19 this month.
Please note that astjp2 who is a member of this forum, has been working on an STC for the header valve. It is a tough up-hill job, but we are rooting for him.

The Luscombe valves are nice. Doug Combs got them STC'd for the Luscombe, and I installed a set in an 8E last year. Very smooth. But not STC'd for Taylorcraft.

The J-3 valve sold by Spruce is robust and works well and so also the ball valves sold as fuel valves for uncertified planes. The geometry is wrong, so the lever must be re-worked to sit at a 45* angle so the shutoff push-pull will work. Again, these are not approved by STC.

If you want to use one of these valves, I would start with a PMA'd valve of some type and then get a field approval before installing it. Emphasis on BEFORE. The feds hate to have a guy come in and demand approval for an illegal mod.

The original Imperial valve has two main sources of leaking. Either the valve stem leaks, or fuel seeps past the valve body and does not fully shut off. The valve stem problem is easy to repair by re-packing it. The best way is to cut new leather using gasket punches and then install the packing with liberal amounts of fuel lube (EZ_TURN) on it. Some tribesmen have wound packing around the valve stem as was done on antique faucets and that is know to work reasonably well.

The valve body can be repaired by slight lapping to remove scratches and coating it with fuel lube when re-assembling; however, if the scratching is actually deep scoring, then lapping may not be sufficient. I recommend toothpaste as the most aggressive lapping compound you should use. Over-lapping will cause the tapered core to sit too deeply in the valve body and then it will no longer engage the stops. Also, take care when lapping that you keep the edges of the valve body straight. It is very easy to get too aggressive and allow the valve body to lap more in the center than at the top and bottom. Once it is bowed out like that it is a real problem.

I have several valves here that I experiment with from time to time trying to figure out if I can salvage any of them. I am considering having the valve body & core plated and then lapped. I would probably cad-plate because chrome would be too hard. Perhaps additional brass could be deposited onto the parts - I'm not too savvy about plating.

Whatever you do, go easy on it. That old brass casting can crack.

[asq]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

I just lapped in 2 wing valves and a main valve that hadn't been used in 20 yrs. One came loose with kroil. Two took Kroil and substantial heat from a propane torch. I lapped them with BonAmi cleanser mixed w/ water and finished with toothpaste. Used a bat power drill,very very slowly. Worked on all three. Larry Huntley

Rick,
Good on you for getting a T-craft flying again. I fly a BC12-D and began restoration on an F-19 this month.
Please note that astjp2 who is a member of this forum, has been working on an STC for the header valve. It is a tough up-hill job, but we are rooting for him.

The Luscombe valves are nice. Doug Combs got them STC'd for the Luscombe, and I installed a set in an 8E last year. Very smooth. But not STC'd for Taylorcraft.

The J-3 valve sold by Spruce is robust and works well and so also the ball valves sold as fuel valves for uncertified planes. The geometry is wrong, so the lever must be re-worked to sit at a 45* angle so the shutoff push-pull will work. Again, these are not approved by STC.

If you want to use one of these valves, I would start with a PMA'd valve of some type and then get a field approval before installing it. Emphasis on BEFORE. The feds hate to have a guy come in and demand approval for an illegal mod.

The original Imperial valve has two main sources of leaking. Either the valve stem leaks, or fuel seeps past the valve body and does not fully shut off. The valve stem problem is easy to repair by re-packing it. The best way is to cut new leather using gasket punches and then install the packing with liberal amounts of fuel lube (EZ_TURN) on it. Some tribesmen have wound packing around the valve stem as was done on antique faucets and that is know to work reasonably well.

The valve body can be repaired by slight lapping to remove scratches and coating it with fuel lube when re-assembling; however, if the scratching is actually deep scoring, then lapping may not be sufficient. I recommend toothpaste as the most aggressive lapping compound you should use. Over-lapping will cause the tapered core to sit too deeply in the valve body and then it will no longer engage the stops. Also, take care when lapping that you keep the edges of the valve body straight. It is very easy to get too aggressive and allow the valve body to lap more in the center than at the top and bottom. Once it is bowed out like that it is a real problem.

I have several valves here that I experiment with from time to time trying to figure out if I can salvage any of them. I am considering having the valve body & core plated and then lapped. I would probably cad-plate because chrome would be too hard. Perhaps additional brass could be deposited onto the parts - I'm not too savvy about plating.

Whatever you do, go easy on it. That old brass casting can crack.

[Ghost Rider]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Mark & Larry,

Thank you for your suggestions, I have passed these on to the mechanic doing the work. I'll let you know how things turn out.

If you have or hear of any other suggestions, please pass them along.

I hope to be flying soon,

Rick Ketchersid

[OldBits2]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

You should call Doug at 480-650-0883. The FAA approval was done by engineering as a minor change and material substitution- NOT an STC. He can probably engineer the same approval for Taylorcraft as he did for Luscombe, by simply modifying the applicability of the part. Has been done for other parts and other airplanes.

[astjp2]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

I just got 3 replacement valves assembled for the header tank, now I just need to get my STC and PMA. Tim

[wmfife]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

I just lapped in 2 wing valves and a main valve that hadn't been used in 20 yrs. One came loose with kroil. Two took Kroil and substantial heat from a propane torch. I lapped them with BonAmi cleanser mixed w/ water and finished with toothpaste. Used a bat power drill,very very slowly. Worked on all three. Larry Huntley

Larry, et al,

- Just to inject a bit of science ... referred to in mech school as "theory"... (and in Grade School as "homework"...) into all this, both Bon Ami and Soft Scrub (Dial /Texize?) use Calcium Carbonate (basically limerock, which I am standing on right now as the entire FL peninsula is made of it...) as opposed to silica, as commonly used in toothpaste. So the harder of the two is most likely the toothpaste not the Bon Ami since crystalline silica (quartz sand) is a 7, amorphous silica (glass) around 6 but Calcite (CaCO3 or Calcium Carbonate) is only a 3 on the International Mineral Hardness Scale. (2 can be scratched with a fingernail while 3 cannot.) Knowing this I would reverse the procedure to end, not begin, with the Bon Ami (or Soft Scrub, both of which have the same active scrubbing agent).

Industrial polishing compounds like Pumice and Rottenstone also contain these agents but may include crystalline silica, as well, which is harder than amorphus or Diatomaceous silicas (used in toothpaste) and is likely the only kind hard enough to scratch glass. The only possible exception is the Diatomaceous, which is a hydrated silica. Some polishing toothpate brands are known to use this kind in abundance for greater effect. All I really have on this.

Just a heads up. I, too, have an original (read: irreplaceable) valve and it leaks like a sieve. So for obvious reasons I want to get all this right the first time around.

[wmfife]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness_scale#Minerals

- Just to further complicate all this is that while the Hardness Scale numbers go from 1 to 10 the absolute hardness of each mineral is a completely different value. Thus while Calcite is a 3 on the scale its absolute hardness is actually 9 while Quartz crystal assigned a 7 is actually an absolute of 100!

That said then it is perhaps worth knowing that the silica in toothpaste is very nearly if not more than ten times as hard as the CaCO3 in Bon Ami.

...Just FYI.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Yes and I don't remember the exact numbers but diamond is several times that yet! Larry

[wmfife]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

(Ref the posted link: )

Sixteen times as hard. (Quartz=100; Diamond=1600.)
But I don't suggest lapping any fuel valves with industrial diamond!

** ** **

"...That's good enough for government work!"
"...If it don't fit, -get a bigger hammer!"

(Popular sayings among USN Flight Crew mechs...)

[jborshard]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

About a month ago I went out to fly and couldn't move my fuel shut off valve. So tried to turn it by and and the lever broke in half. Finally got around to getting it off, took it apart as much as I could and the darn thing won't turn at all. Got another Imperial valve from the mechanic that rebuilt the plane. It is slightly different in that it has a couple of mounting plates sticking out of the side. I could use that but I don't have the cast arm with the little bar brazed on it....which I understand by some discussion on the forum that that is original.

Bottom line is are there any decent modern replacement valves? I bought a valve from Univair but it is much longer than the original. Has any progress been made in any other approved valves for the taylorcraft bc12 D?
Thanks,
Jerry Borshard

[astjp2]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

About a month ago I went out to fly and couldn't move my fuel shut off valve. So tried to turn it by and and the lever broke in half. Finally got around to getting it off, took it apart as much as I could and the darn thing won't turn at all. Got another Imperial valve from the mechanic that rebuilt the plane. It is slightly different in that it has a couple of mounting plates sticking out of the side. I could use that but I don't have the cast arm with the little bar brazed on it....which I understand by some discussion on the forum that that is original.

Bottom line is are there any decent modern replacement valves? I bought a valve from Univair but it is much longer than the original. Has any progress been made in any other approved valves for the taylorcraft bc12 D?
Thanks,
Jerry Borshard

I can probably get you a valve, but I will need to get some handles made....Let me know if you are interested. Tim

[KewFlyer]

Re: Header Tank Fuel Shut-off Valve

Jerry:

Ebay sells Imperial valves for about $ 50 plus shipping. Search "taylorcraft" . I replaced the two valves with these Imperials. Work fine and easy to operate.

Try here (copy & paste):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Imperial-fuel-valve-for-Aeronca-Taylorcraft-Luscombe-Cessna-150-/170997103437?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&hash=item27d038bb4d&vxp=mtr

good luck.

Ralph