BC12D TCD question

[louiswp]

Hello guys, I have a fuel tank question again. since I was burnt on this before I am getting my facts before I call the FAA to get their take. BC12D 65 hp, TCD A696, states fuselage tank and wing tank but does not say what wing. maint manual says right wing standard. NOTE 2. Left hand wing tank eligible as 6 gal. auxiliary on all models except BCS-65 and BC12D-85. I have searched the logs and their isn't a single entry for a left hand tank install but I did find an entry for right. So if I am correct I can just do a log book entry and make sure W&B is correct. I have the FAA records CD on the way also. the aircraft has been recovered numerous times so it has quite a few 337 forms in the current records no tanks listed in them either. I contacted a few forum members with no reply so I will try my luck on here. thanks in advance

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: BC12D TCD question

I "think" (dangerous I know) that if you look through the papers and they don't ever show the RH tank was removed....and the tank is shown on the original equipment list and TC, you can replace it and not put ANYTHING in the logs. You are simply bringing the plane back into conformity. You don't need a log entry to take something that "isn't really officially there" off do you? I can't imagine why you need to log putting something back on that was never "officially" removed.

IAs and A&Ps please chime in!

Hank

[Guest]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Hello guys, I have a fuel tank question again. since I was burnt on this before I am getting my facts before I call the FAA to get their take. BC12D 65 hp, TCD A696, states fuselage tank and wing tank but does not say what wing. maint manual says right wing standard. NOTE 2. Left hand wing tank eligible as 6 gal. auxiliary on all models except BCS-65 and BC12D-85. I have searched the logs and their isn't a single entry for a left hand tank install but I did find an entry for right. So if I am correct I can just do a log book entry and make sure W&B is correct. I have the FAA records CD on the way also. the aircraft has been recovered numerous times so it has quite a few 337 forms in the current records no tanks listed in them either. I contacted a few forum members with no reply so I will try my luck on here. thanks in advance

Hi Louis,

What work would you describe in your proposed log book entry? In other words what are you doing? replacing a tank? repairing? what?

Why are you concerned about a LH tank?

Without knowledge of what you are doing and the state of the plane that you are doing it to its hard to answer this. Need more elaboration.

Your assessment of the TCDS and manufacturing manual seems correct in general but those other things I mentioned need to be elaborated. Feel free to call may be faster/easier 919 365 3063

Dave A&P, IA

[Garry Crookham]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Louis,
Is this aircraft actually a BC12-D or is it the BL that caused you grief a year or so ago? The BL series is under TC A700 not A696.

[louiswp]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Louis,
Is this aircraft actually a BC12-D or is it the BL that caused you grief a year or so ago? The BL series is under TC A700 not A696.

That was the first thing I looked at, It is a factory BC or at least that's when the Continental was put on at the factory per the logs and registered as a BC. My problem is with the left hand tanks? they never came from the factory that way until a few years later but I have found a lot of them without any documentation of a left tank being installed. Since I posted this the FAA sent me a response and confirmed my thoughts. the left tank needs to be entered in the logs and W&B updated. the W&B was correct just the entry was not found. That BL/BC cost me a lot of money and my IA for 8 months. swore I would never touch an old aircraft then this came up again. Its possible the left tank is documented somewhere but we didn't see it. so its been illegal for many years sometime after 46. I told the owner I needed to be assured a log entry was all that's needed and that 3rd tank is 100% legal. that BL I took the fall for the last 25 annuals. the owner got over 15k in fines for his handy work.
Terry
sorry I wasn't clear, the right tank wasn't a big concern since most models allow at least the right tank. but it didn't come from the factory with that right tank, but I found the rt tank log. just a bit gun shy now

[louiswp]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Dave, the concern is the left tank installed when the logs don't say it exists. that makes it illegal since it didn't come from the factory that way so it was added a few years later.
TCD's list it as an aux option but it still needs recorded.
from what I learned, when the factory produced more aircraft with a left tank the tanks became available in large numbers and from the military aircraft no longer needed. people were putting them in their aircraft, some allowed and some only with a 337. I know a guy with 3 BL's with left hand tanks. all illegal. his hangar collapsed from the snow so they are scrap now.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Louis

I guess I'm still a bit confused as to what model the Taylorcraft is. Your first post says BC12-D but post 5 says it didn't come from the factory with a rh tank. Per TDCS all BC12-D models are required to have a rh tank. What is the aircraft's serial number. BC12-D serial numbers start at 6402. I agree that installing a left hand tank in a BC12-D only requires a logbook entry and w/b.

[louiswp]

Re: BC12D TCD question

yep that was my posting error, the original confusion was the TCD didn't specify what wing the tank was in. maint manual for the B said right wing. otherwise it was not clear.
18 gal. (12 gal. fuselage tank at (-9) and 6 gal. wing tank at (+24). The entry I seen back in 47 or 48 said installed right wing tank. now its possible they meant left but assuming isn't legal either. S/N is above 10200. I don't have logs with me. but you would think they would mention plumbing also. this taylorcraft is a nice looking plane and in great shape. also has a neat history. while paging through the logs its been in most of the states.

[astjp2]

Re: BC12D TCD question

So just do a 337...."Inspected previously installed Left hand wing auxiliary tank. Tank installed by unknown person, was found to be in compliance with TCDS installation requirements on TCDS 696 note 2. Installation was found to be in airworthy condition." Then send it in to OK city, don't send it to FSDO, they would make it into a mountain from a mole hill.

[N96337]

Re: BC12D TCD question

I think I'd do just a log entry for the L/H tank installed previously and in compliance with the TC note. It shouldn't need a 337....however, it sure wont hurt to submit a 337. One of my old PMI's always said he'd never seen anyone in trouble for submitting a 337 if it wasn't needed, but he'd seen a few in trouble for NOT submitting one when it was needed. If you do, I'd do just as Tim says and send it direct.
John

[astjp2]

Re: BC12D TCD question

There is something with the serial numbers and a logbook only, that is why I suggested to do the 337.

I think I'd do just a log entry for the L/H tank installed previously and in compliance with the TC note. It shouldn't need a 337....however, it sure wont hurt to submit a 337. One of my old PMI's always said he'd never seen anyone in trouble for submitting a 337 if it wasn't needed, but he'd seen a few in trouble for NOT submitting one when it was needed. If you do, I'd do just as Tim says and send it direct.
John

[louiswp]

Re: BC12D TCD question

update! I am still waiting on the CD for past aircraft records but I looked through the logs some more today. I have a few more questions and correct me where I am wrong.
1) is it for certain that the BC12D comes standard with a right tank or is it left. the reasoning is below..
2)no past weight and balance forms, so I cant tell if the current W&B takes into account.
3) the tank would have to of been put in during recovering which requires a 337 as a major repair or even just doing the wing covering would exceed a minor fabric repair so its possible the tank is mentioned in a missing 337. tank itself as mentioned before is just a log entry BUT you need to get to it first.
So today going through the logs again I see the first entry in the logs states right tank installed as Aux see updated W&B on 337 (which is missing), I am hoping they meant left tank because the right is not the aux tank. verified AW certificate and logs its a BC12D. So I guess I need to wait for the CD. I cant just update the weight and balance because it may already be calculated in. W&B says supersedes W&B dated 1975 which doesn't exist. also as posted before I guarantee I wont be doing a 337 to the local FSDO cause that's the dick that took my IA over this crap the last time. not sure why taylorcrafts need to be so confusing. I maintained 1000's of different model aircraft and 20 types of helicopters over the years and never had an issue deciphering a so simple aircraft. but I sure am not losing my license for a $400 annual. thanks for all your posts. I am an expert on BL models, now to figure this BC12D out. thanks again and I will wait for the comments

[astjp2]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Both wing tanks are aux tanks, just do a new weight and balance, as weighed, with a current equipment list.

[louiswp]

Re: BC12D TCD question

yeah that's right, just like the ercoupe the header tank is main. that's what happens when you type before thinking. that's where I am at. I have scales so we are just going to weigh it so its correct and be done with it if the CD doesn't show differently.

[astjp2]

Re: BC12D TCD question

Good call, I usually throw an airplane on the scales even if I have not done the annual before, I have a spread sheet on here with load schedules for 3 tanks. Make sure you measure the actual tail wheel center distance from the datum, most are not accurate in the TCDS. Mine was off by 3 inches and that is a lot that far from the datum. I can put #200 in the baggage and still be within CG. Have you checked the washout? What about wheel alignment? just some things to think about. Tim