Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

[Nefj40]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

I had to go look it up for myself. It's actually CAR4a.477 that makes the statement about tailwheel cert.

§ 4a.477 Wheels. Main landing gear wheels shall
be of a type or model certificated by the Administrator
in accordance with the provisions of Part 15 of this
subchapter and shall not be subjected to static loads
in excess of those for which they are certificated. Tail
wheels may be of any type or model and are not
certificated. Nose wheels are subject to special
rulings to be made by the Administrator.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

The BC12-D in question is actually certificated under part 04 of the Civil Air Regulations effective as amended to May 1, 1938. Be advised that CAR 04 and CAR 04a are two different regulations and there is more than one CAR 04 (the amended date makes the difference). CAR 04.442 is the applicable regulation for the tailwheel (which happens to read the same as in 04a). A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous and getting the various CAR's and FAR's mixed up can cause all kinds of problems. It is possible for an airplane to have a current, legal annual inspection and not be legal to fly. An airplane can conform to the type certificate and not meet all the applicable FAR's. One of the Civil Air Regulations doesn't require a compass to be installed if the airplane remains within 100 miles from it's home base yet under FAR 91.205 a compass is a required piece of equipment. You can see why the average IA doesn't want to mess with these old airplanes.

[barnstmr]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Dave,
You and Wally are certainly on the right track. In the case of the Taylorcraft B-series, the applicable regulation is CAR 4 and not CAR 4a. But the good news is they both read the same.

CAR 4
04.442 Wheels. Main landing gear wheels shall be a of type or model certificated by the administrator in accordance with the provisions of Part 15 and shall not be subjected to static loads in excess of those for which they are certificated. Tail wheels may be of any type or model and are not certificated. Nose wheels are subject to special rulings to be made by the Administrator.

Sometimes the difference between CAR 4 and 4a are significant, sometimes not. It is important to make sure you are applying the correct rules. CAR4a is applicable to the D-series (L-2). CAR 4 is applicable to the B-series. CAR 3 applies to the model 19 and F-19 and up. Sorry to be a stickler, but this is the world I live in and it can matter.

As for our issue at hand in this thread, here is my take. This all comes down to willingness to sign by those with the authority to do so. There are varied levels of authority granted by the FAA to take care of the "certification" of design data, parts, and inspections for return to service. Those with authority should stay informed and know what the regulations say. The ill-informed ones who do not stay atop their authorized areas become the ones who are afraid to sign their name to things. It is easier to REJECT than it is to CERTIFY. So, it is always best if you do your homework up front. Then you can educate your mechanic, A&P, IA, DAR, DER, FSDO inspector, et.al. Just be careful to ensure that your sources are correct and don't always take everything you read on the internet as gospel.

[waltermrich]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Thank you Terry for your insights and Happy New Year Stearman3 love this forum

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Lot of posts since we heard from David. Have we sufficiently buried you in information? ;-)

This is a great group. We WILL get you back in the air. Have heart, it will all be worth it when you first get air under the tires.

Hank

[Nefj40]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Well thanks for straightening that out Terry. Shortly after my above post, I read the link and noticed the discrepancy between what you posted (.442) and I posted (.477.) I spent 30 minutes trying to figure it out, but gave up assuming someone would point it out and get the correct info out.

I don't take anything I read on a internet forum as gospel, that's the reason why I always feel the need to look it up for myself.

I might have found a good AP/AI who takes care of a bunch of these older aircraft, and he strongly encourages owner assisted annuals, so I'm probably going to use him here in the next couple months. I also agree with being fully armed with all the (correct) knowledge in order to work through any problems that may present themselves.

Sorry about the thread drift.

[stearman3]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Dave,
You and Wally are certainly on the right track. In the case of the Taylorcraft B-series, the applicable regulation is CAR 4 and not CAR 4a. But the good news is they both read the same.

CAR 4
04.442 Wheels. Main landing gear wheels shall be a of type or model certificated by the administrator in accordance with the provisions of Part 15 and shall not be subjected to static loads in excess of those for which they are certificated. Tail wheels may be of any type or model and are not certificated. Nose wheels are subject to special rulings to be made by the Administrator.

Sometimes the difference between CAR 4 and 4a are significant, sometimes not. It is important to make sure you are applying the correct rules. CAR4a is applicable to the D-series (L-2). CAR 4 is applicable to the B-series. CAR 3 applies to the model 19 and F-19 and up. Sorry to be a stickler, but this is the world I live in and it can matter.

As for our issue at hand in this thread, here is my take. This all comes down to willingness to sign by those with the authority to do so. There are varied levels of authority granted by the FAA to take care of the "certification" of design data, parts, and inspections for return to service. Those with authority should stay informed and know what the regulations say. The ill-informed ones who do not stay atop their authorized areas become the ones who are afraid to sign their name to things. It is easier to REJECT than it is to CERTIFY. So, it is always best if you do your homework up front. Then you can educate your mechanic, A&P, IA, DAR, DER, FSDO inspector, et.al. Just be careful to ensure that your sources are correct and don't always take everything you read on the internet as gospel.

How dare you and Crook correct the Great Oz!
I must have Stearman on the brain............
Aw, I was just testing you guys....Yeah, That's the ticket...I was just test'n ya!
Now, for this weeks quiz:
Why do we have a TCDS for the Heath engine, when at the bottom of the sheet ,it says... NOT APPROVED!?!?

[VanDy]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Some other handy info to have around is AC 23-27, Parts substitution for vintage aircraft.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

You can do work on your plane, but only if he is willing to sign it off as his having done it himself.

Hank

Thats not quite correct. I'm attaching FAR 43.3 (d) which states that you can perform maintenance on your airplane under the supervision of your A&P. Also attached is 43.9 a (3) and (4) which states when the work is signed off by your A&P the entry shall contain the name of the person performing the work, if it is different from that of the person signing the work off.

§43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding,and alterations
(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.


[TOP]
§43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, §135.411(a)(1), and §135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:
(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed

[astjp2]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

Buy me a ticket and I will fly out, put me up on a warm cot and for 35 per hour along with an occasional meal, I will help you get your airplane signed off. Tim

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

"if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly". We have come to an agreement as to what the extent necessary is. In most cases, for things that are AT ALL questionable, I want him standing next to me looking at what my hands are doing. In some cases, he will look at it and if there is a question, I will simply loosen it and tighten it back in his presence. NOTHING gets done he doesn't approve of.

Hank

[Guest]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

In fact CAR 4a part .479 (that's the cert. basis for our flying machines) does not require tail wheels be certificated. Look it up. it says just that.

So, a Matco, or anything else a mechanic feels will do the job would be as legal as the day is long!

Hi Wally,

I did go and read CAR4a.479

It appears to me to be merely a definition.

Some definitions had cross references but this one did not.

Can you educate me about how to come to the same determination that you did?

I am not following.

Thanks, Dave.

[Guest]

Re: Getting my T craft changed to Experimental LSA

oops!

never mind I see that others posted a corrected reference, by bad